Any ideas on how we accomplish that?PurpleOut said:
Because they were never really good until Beard. The few seasons that they were decent under Tubby Smith they had great crowds. Winning cures all in most cases.
But not in our case it seems, at least right now. The student turnout for UIW last weekend was pathetic in my opinion. Encouraging them doesn't work, especially PHA as an organization. They take any comment or suggestion as an insult and shut down. I've experienced that several times first hand unfortunately.
Our students only show up if we're playing Sam Houston, or if they get something for free. Showing up is only half the battle unfortunately (as 05 mentioned), but we have to take on that battle first.
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TallTexan said:Any ideas on how we accomplish that?PurpleOut said:
Because they were never really good until Beard. The few seasons that they were decent under Tubby Smith they had great crowds. Winning cures all in most cases.
But not in our case it seems, at least right now. The student turnout for UIW last weekend was pathetic in my opinion. Encouraging them doesn't work, especially PHA as an organization. They take any comment or suggestion as an insult and shut down. I've experienced that several times first hand unfortunately.
Our students only show up if we're playing Sam Houston, or if they get something for free. Showing up is only half the battle unfortunately (as 05 mentioned), but we have to take on that battle first.
Well I suppose if you did know, you'd probably have CDC's job at Texas.
We need to figure out some options as a fanbase & athletic department to get students out to the games & active.
We need to figure out some options as a fanbase & athletic department to get students out to the games & active.
Giving stuff away does get the kids out. Not saying it's the best long term thing, but it was getting draw last year and the year before. This year it definitely seems like student experience has been minimized, but as I'm not a student or on campus, maybe there's more than I see. At the games, it doesn't seem like much.
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It does seem like there hasn't been as much "promotion" this year as in years past. In terms of social media, but also promos at the game to win money for example. I'm tying some of that to the turnover internally.
The easiest thing to do in my opinion, for students, is to just try to make it a party. That's really all Grand Canyon is. We just have to tell them that. They won't do anything unless it's going to be fun for them. If they see they can go and be apart of a party AND watch really good basketball...maybe that's it. Music needs to be switched up some, pass out some balloons for whenever the visiting team is shooting on the students end, try to find local donors/businesses to donate things like shirts or setting up a tailgate so that it's not against the budget. Just figure something out that's not difficult and expensive. I also think there should be a student party inside the Coliseum before the season starts, similar to a midnight madness. But have the players, coaches, etc all emphasis what a real student section is. Show real student section videos on the board, etc. A Student Section 101 Party you could call it. Hell, I'd come do it all myself if they'd let me.
The halftime show with dogs and whatnot are cool, but there's nobody out there saying, "You know what, I didn't want to go to the game but now that they have dogs catching frisbees at halftime...we need to go." If winning won't get a casual fan out, then I'm not sure anything will.
Sorry, carry on.
The easiest thing to do in my opinion, for students, is to just try to make it a party. That's really all Grand Canyon is. We just have to tell them that. They won't do anything unless it's going to be fun for them. If they see they can go and be apart of a party AND watch really good basketball...maybe that's it. Music needs to be switched up some, pass out some balloons for whenever the visiting team is shooting on the students end, try to find local donors/businesses to donate things like shirts or setting up a tailgate so that it's not against the budget. Just figure something out that's not difficult and expensive. I also think there should be a student party inside the Coliseum before the season starts, similar to a midnight madness. But have the players, coaches, etc all emphasis what a real student section is. Show real student section videos on the board, etc. A Student Section 101 Party you could call it. Hell, I'd come do it all myself if they'd let me.
The halftime show with dogs and whatnot are cool, but there's nobody out there saying, "You know what, I didn't want to go to the game but now that they have dogs catching frisbees at halftime...we need to go." If winning won't get a casual fan out, then I'm not sure anything will.
Sorry, carry on.
I think the most important thing is to be realistic. The only games that are "ever" a big draw is: Sam, Northwestern St. and maybe Lamar. The turnout for those games are usually acceptable. Trying to get someone to come out for UIW or UNO when there is no name recognition and the teams are mostly trash is a lost cause. I say, continue to do the best we can enhancing our "marquee" home games (shoot to get 4,500-5,500 consistently) and Hope a couple good promotions will bring out some people for McNeese , UCA and Nicholls... schools that fans have a little familiarity with.
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BigJack85 said:
I think the most important thing is to be realistic. The only games that are "ever" a big draw is: Sam, Northwestern St. and maybe Lamar. The turnout for those games are usually acceptable. Trying to get someone to come out for UIW or UNO when there is no name recognition and the teams are mostly trash is a lost cause. I say, continue to do the best we can enhancing our "marquee" home games (shoot to get 4,500-5,500 consistently) and Hope a couple good promotions will bring out some people for McNeese , UCA and Nicholls... schools that fans have a little familiarity with.
I agree. We just need to get more fans out of that mentality. We aren't the only one to have lower attendance for lesser known schools, but the real basketball schools...they're sold out and packed regardless. That's what I wish we could get to.
The hard part about pushing student attendance, is they are unpaid admission. You want to incorporate the local community because they are paying for tickets, helping cover expenses. Unfortunately, Nacogdoches isn't a young town outside of the college. Setting up a party atmosphere isn't going to bring in paying customers.
I agree that the atmosphere can be improved. I think your ideas of bringing in a stadium DJ (University of Houston does it too at football games) are great, but there has to be balance to it. That is what makes this soo hard.
I know they have started pushing Group Sales more, which could offset things. Bringing in local high schoolers (We have seen they party harder at sporting events anyways) with group sales, could make the DJ more doable. During Freshmen Orientation, they could do a hoops 101 led by some players and or Purple Haze. Giveaways always work, but those are costly over the course of the season.
My wife and I have been talking about moving back to the Nacogdoches area, and I would LOVE to have a job in the athletic department to help promote and build a fun atmostphere. That or work in media relations...Dream jobs...
I agree that the atmosphere can be improved. I think your ideas of bringing in a stadium DJ (University of Houston does it too at football games) are great, but there has to be balance to it. That is what makes this soo hard.
I know they have started pushing Group Sales more, which could offset things. Bringing in local high schoolers (We have seen they party harder at sporting events anyways) with group sales, could make the DJ more doable. During Freshmen Orientation, they could do a hoops 101 led by some players and or Purple Haze. Giveaways always work, but those are costly over the course of the season.
My wife and I have been talking about moving back to the Nacogdoches area, and I would LOVE to have a job in the athletic department to help promote and build a fun atmostphere. That or work in media relations...Dream jobs...
I believe that BigJack is correct in that one must be realistic when it comes to the MBB crowds which sadly means that there seems to be a ceiling on student attendance that is seldom overcome. One would think that beating the then number 1 team and a huge name in BB would alone bring in more folks. From our corner of the world we know that Purple Out has tried many times to offer proposals and ideas to improve attendance, most of which are never pursued. Quite frankly, unless or until SFA actually becomes the next Gonzaga I just don't see much change in said attendance. Not trying to be a stick in the mud but 43 years after I started at SFA the story seems much the same.
Of course one difference between now and 1976 is that we play in the same divisions as the big boys, teams everyone recognizes or is familiar with...but as we know those big boys are not coming to Nac to play. That would bring in more folks but is beyond anything that we fans could have any control . Perhaps Ivey and the new hires in the athletic arena can come up with ideas but it will be a long road based on our history.
So what would you guys consider to be a good number of students at a game? 1200-1300 students per game would be 10% of enrollment. Is that a fair expectation?
Of course one difference between now and 1976 is that we play in the same divisions as the big boys, teams everyone recognizes or is familiar with...but as we know those big boys are not coming to Nac to play. That would bring in more folks but is beyond anything that we fans could have any control . Perhaps Ivey and the new hires in the athletic arena can come up with ideas but it will be a long road based on our history.
So what would you guys consider to be a good number of students at a game? 1200-1300 students per game would be 10% of enrollment. Is that a fair expectation?
I don't think 10% is too much to ask. That could fill the area behind the visitors goal
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I don't think that's too much to ask at all either.
And yeah the party theme idea thing is just around the students. Grand Canyon isn't the best overall example since their place is mostly students, but they have the other side that is season student tickets. I think it would be very easy to promote the party idea just to the students. And yeah, a DJ can be an easy addition but would need to be a little toned down. I'm all for it.
And yeah the party theme idea thing is just around the students. Grand Canyon isn't the best overall example since their place is mostly students, but they have the other side that is season student tickets. I think it would be very easy to promote the party idea just to the students. And yeah, a DJ can be an easy addition but would need to be a little toned down. I'm all for it.
We were winning but the place to be was Shelton Gym from 66-71, no matter (didn't have to be sam)who we were playing.. Nothing else going on in Nac at the time. Had to stand in line for hours and the games were somehow televised over some local station. 7000 less students too. SOMEONE HAS TO HAVE THE ANSWER
I think 1200-1500 is a fair expectation.
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That's awesome. I've always heard good things about our crowds back in the day.HJC69 said:
We were winning but the place to be was Shelton Gym from 66-71, no matter (didn't have to be sam)who we were playing.. Nothing else going on in Nac at the time. Had to stand in line for hours and the games were somehow televised over some local station. 7000 less students too. SOMEONE HAS TO HAVE THE ANSWER
Unfortunately, I think one of the biggest problem today is just the difference in kids. It's not them all, but the sense of entitlement and overall "can't be bothered" attitude is real to me.
We have the same problems as Duke.
https://balldurham.com/2020/01/27/duke-basketball-struggles-fill-cameron/
https://balldurham.com/2020/01/27/duke-basketball-struggles-fill-cameron/
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It's fair to add that attendance for overall college athletics is down. College football especially. There's too many ways to enjoy a game from home now with the tv coverage available. Combine that with the price of tickets, and I get it somewhat.nacluth said:
We have the same problems as Duke.
https://balldurham.com/2020/01/27/duke-basketball-struggles-fill-cameron/
Duke still has (I believe) the most expensive face value ticket. Just doesn't make sense for the casual fan.
The configuration of Shelton was not the same as now. With move in seats and standing room only there were 3000+ at every game..
Agree. No doubt there is a difference.
To many distractions and lack of a "community" type association. We should be thankful we get what we get. I've been to most of the Houston area D-1 schools. U of H, HBU, TSU and Sam. We have the best "experience" by far Only U of H has comparable crowds. Not scientific but I still think we "over perform" significantly.
Winning will definitely help. Keller said tonight on the coaches show that most all games we play on the road brings in their best numbers. I think last year set us back somewhat.
Did this start right after Bain killed them with that layup? Lolnacluth said:
We have the same problems as Duke.
https://balldurham.com/2020/01/27/duke-basketball-struggles-fill-cameron/
I started in '72 and stood in those lines at Shelton. Sam was the biggest draw but, Howard Payne, Sul Ross, Angelo State, Texas A&I were all big draws as well.HJC69 said:
We were winning but the place to be was Shelton Gym from 66-71, no matter (didn't have to be sam)who we were playing.. Nothing else going on in Nac at the time. Had to stand in line for hours and the games were somehow televised over some local station. 7000 less students too. SOMEONE HAS TO HAVE THE ANSWER
Comment on giveaways; we have seen far too many students that go to the game to get the t-shirt and leave before tip off. Doesn't mean to not do it. Simply a part of the challenge.
SFAJack_76 said:I started in '72 and stood in those lines at Shelton. Sam was the biggest draw but, Howard Payne, Sul Ross, Angelo State, Texas A&I were all big draws as well.HJC69 said:
We were winning but the place to be was Shelton Gym from 66-71, no matter (didn't have to be sam)who we were playing.. Nothing else going on in Nac at the time. Had to stand in line for hours and the games were somehow televised over some local station. 7000 less students too. SOMEONE HAS TO HAVE THE ANSWER
St. Mary's (San Antonio) was really strong in those days and the hurdle that the Jacks had to get over in the NAIA playoffs (early 70's teams with George Johnson, James Silas, the Polnick twins, Surry Oliver, Norvis Anderson (all were drafted by the NBA), I made the trip to the NAIA national tournament in Kansas City the year they finished 31-1. There was even a story in Sports Illustrated about them. I still have a copy of it It's true that Prison Tech was a rival even back then, but Howard Payne was our strongest opponent in Lone Star Conference play. I, too, stood in those lines for several hours outside of Shelton Gym waiting for the doors to open. The place was full an hour before games. We didn't need handouts to entice us there. We were there for the basketball!
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That's awesome. Do you have the ability to share pics of the SI article (if you would want to)?SFA Jack Fanatic said:SFAJack_76 said:I started in '72 and stood in those lines at Shelton. Sam was the biggest draw but, Howard Payne, Sul Ross, Angelo State, Texas A&I were all big draws as well.HJC69 said:
We were winning but the place to be was Shelton Gym from 66-71, no matter (didn't have to be sam)who we were playing.. Nothing else going on in Nac at the time. Had to stand in line for hours and the games were somehow televised over some local station. 7000 less students too. SOMEONE HAS TO HAVE THE ANSWER
St. Mary's (San Antonio) was really strong in those days and the hurdle that the Jacks had to get over in the NAIA playoffs (early 70's teams with George Johnson, James Silas, the Polnick twins, Surry Oliver, Norvis Anderson (all were drafted by the NBA), I made the trip to the NAIA national tournament in Kansas City the year they finished 31-1. There was even a story in Sports Illustrated about them. I still have a copy of it It's true that Prison Tech was a rival even back then, but Howard Payne was our strongest opponent in Lone Star Conference play. I, too, stood in those lines for several hours outside of Shelton Gym waiting for the doors to open. The place was full an hour before games. We didn't need handouts to entice us there. We were there for the basketball!
PurpleOut said:That's awesome. Do you have the ability to share pics of the SI article (if you would want to)?SFA Jack Fanatic said:SFAJack_76 said:I started in '72 and stood in those lines at Shelton. Sam was the biggest draw but, Howard Payne, Sul Ross, Angelo State, Texas A&I were all big draws as well.HJC69 said:
We were winning but the place to be was Shelton Gym from 66-71, no matter (didn't have to be sam)who we were playing.. Nothing else going on in Nac at the time. Had to stand in line for hours and the games were somehow televised over some local station. 7000 less students too. SOMEONE HAS TO HAVE THE ANSWER
St. Mary's (San Antonio) was really strong in those days and the hurdle that the Jacks had to get over in the NAIA playoffs (early 70's teams with George Johnson, James Silas, the Polnick twins, Surry Oliver, Norvis Anderson (all were drafted by the NBA), I made the trip to the NAIA national tournament in Kansas City the year they finished 31-1. There was even a story in Sports Illustrated about them. I still have a copy of it It's true that Prison Tech was a rival even back then, but Howard Payne was our strongest opponent in Lone Star Conference play. I, too, stood in those lines for several hours outside of Shelton Gym waiting for the doors to open. The place was full an hour before games. We didn't need handouts to entice us there. We were there for the basketball!
I have the ability IF I can find the magazine down in the dungeon.
Here is a fun theme night. Backwards night...Free admission, free popcorn, t-shirt giveaway, but there's a catch...
If you leave before the final buzzer, you have to pay...You have to pay for any and all drinks (That free popcorn will ensure drinks are bought)
If you leave before the final buzzer, you have to pay...You have to pay for any and all drinks (That free popcorn will ensure drinks are bought)
We're just over halfway through the conference schedule, so just for fun, here are my Mid-Season MVP choices for the Jacks. Add yours below.
Offensive MVP: Kevon Harris (slowed recently due to injury, but still "The Man" offensively, averaging 18.2)
Defensive MVP: John Comeaux (44 steals on the year)
Newcomer of the Year: Cam Johnson (when he's hot, he's hot; we wouldn't be 19-3 without him; .580 FG %; 2nd leading scorer and 4th leading rebounder while coming off the bench as our 6th man)
Team MVP: Tough call between John and Kevon, but I'll go with... John Comeaux (a steady, invaluable field general; 56 assists; one of our best FT and 3 pt. shooters on the team; not afraid to challenge anyone when going to the hoop)
Offensive MVP: Kevon Harris (slowed recently due to injury, but still "The Man" offensively, averaging 18.2)
Defensive MVP: John Comeaux (44 steals on the year)
Newcomer of the Year: Cam Johnson (when he's hot, he's hot; we wouldn't be 19-3 without him; .580 FG %; 2nd leading scorer and 4th leading rebounder while coming off the bench as our 6th man)
Team MVP: Tough call between John and Kevon, but I'll go with... John Comeaux (a steady, invaluable field general; 56 assists; one of our best FT and 3 pt. shooters on the team; not afraid to challenge anyone when going to the hoop)
I agree with everything you said, but I would have Kensmil as our newcomer of the year. He's been the difference maker to me fundamentally for our team. Leading rebounder, scoring 62% of his shots, 10 more assists than Cam with one less steal.
Essentially his numbers are as good if not better than TJ's were two years ago except Gavin doesn't shoot 3's and is about a block less a game. But stats say he's better around the rim offensively and defensively. He has saved the loss of a great player. My $.02.
Essentially his numbers are as good if not better than TJ's were two years ago except Gavin doesn't shoot 3's and is about a block less a game. But stats say he's better around the rim offensively and defensively. He has saved the loss of a great player. My $.02.
Agree 100% John is also the heart of the team (along with Nate). Cam is a difference maker and should be 1st Team next year. We thrive off of a strong 6th man (remember Shannon's Jr year....) and Cam fits this role nicely!SFA Jack Fanatic said:
We're just over halfway through the conference schedule, so just for fun, here are my Mid-Season MVP choices for the Jacks. Add yours below.
Offensive MVP: Kevon Harris (slowed recently due to injury, but still "The Man" offensively, averaging 18.2)
Defensive MVP: John Comeaux (44 steals on the year)
Newcomer of the Year: Cam Johnson (when he's hot, he's hot; we wouldn't be 19-3 without him; .580 FG %; 2nd leading scorer and 4th leading rebounder while coming off the bench as our 6th man)
Team MVP: Tough call between John and Kevon, but I'll go with... John Comeaux (a steady, invaluable field general; 56 assists; one of our best FT and 3 pt. shooters on the team; not afraid to challenge anyone when going to the hoop)
I'd like to nominate myself for fan MVP.SFA Jack Fanatic said:
We're just over halfway through the conference schedule, so just for fun, here are my Mid-Season MVP choices for the Jacks. Add yours below.
Offensive MVP: Kevon Harris (slowed recently due to injury, but still "The Man" offensively, averaging 18.2)
Defensive MVP: John Comeaux (44 steals on the year)
Newcomer of the Year: Cam Johnson (when he's hot, he's hot; we wouldn't be 19-3 without him; .580 FG %; 2nd leading scorer and 4th leading rebounder while coming off the bench as our 6th man)
Team MVP: Tough call between John and Kevon, but I'll go with... John Comeaux (a steady, invaluable field general; 56 assists; one of our best FT and 3 pt. shooters on the team; not afraid to challenge anyone when going to the hoop)
For evidence, see the Duke Pick Em game.
You tryin' to come after my crown??!!TallTexan said:
I'd like to nominate myself for fan MVP.
For evidence, see the Duke Pick Em game.
TallTexan said:
I'd like to nominate myself for fan MVP.
For evidence, see the Duke Pick Em game.
I remember a song that went something like... "But that was yesterday, and yesterday's gone..."
nacluth said:
I agree with everything you said, but I would have Kensmil as our newcomer of the year. He's been the difference maker to me fundamentally for our team. Leading rebounder, scoring 62% of his shots, 10 more assists than Cam with one less steal.
Essentially his numbers are as good if not better than TJ's were two years ago except Gavin doesn't shoot 3's and is about a block less a game. But stats say he's better around the rim offensively and defensively. He has saved the loss of a great player. My $.02.
... and a darned good $.02 it was.
Sounds like Ed writes for Mid Madness.SFA Jack Fanatic said:TallTexan said:
I'd like to nominate myself for fan MVP.
For evidence, see the Duke Pick Em game.
I remember a song that went something like... "But that was yesterday, and yesterday's gone..."
I agree with Ed. Just partial to Cam with the TJC connection. Tall Texas I do want to point out that I was THE fan that showed up at the airport at 4:45 AM to welcome the team home after Duke even though I didn't pick us to win! lol
Nate needs some kind of an award. He's fought through SO much his whole career!
Nate needs some kind of an award. He's fought through SO much his whole career!
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