General Academic Thread

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drangel
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8:25p, 8/19/22
Possible names:

1. UT SFA, UT Stephen F. AUSTIN, or UT Nacogdoches

2. Stephen F. Austin State University - Member of the Texas A&M University System

3. No change with Texas Tech or Texas State Systems.

4. Stephen F. Austin State University remain unaffiliated.
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SFA88
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In reply to drangel • 3:53p, 8/20/22
drangel said:
Possible names:

1. UT SFA, UT Stephen F. AUSTIN, or UT Nacogdoches

2. Stephen F. Austin State University - Member of the Texas A&M University System

3. No change with Texas Tech or Texas State Systems.

4. Stephen F. Austin State University remain unaffiliated.


1. Nope
2. Like Tarrelton so ok
3. Tech ok Texas State nope
4. I'm ok with it but it seems to be less and less viable. An affiliation could help fight off UT Tyler.
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NacMan
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In reply to SFA88 • 8:43p, 8/20/22
SFA88 said:
drangel said:
Possible names:

1. UT SFA, UT Stephen F. AUSTIN, or UT Nacogdoches

2. Stephen F. Austin State University - Member of the Texas A&M University System

3. No change with Texas Tech or Texas State Systems.

4. Stephen F. Austin State University remain unaffiliated.


1. Nope
2. Like Tarrelton so ok
3. Tech ok Texas State nope
4. I'm ok with it but it seems to be less and less viable. An affiliation could help fight off UT Tyler.
As someone who has worked at SFA for about two decades, I'd say #4 is totally not viable. Maybe people don't see it from the outside, but internally morale among staff and faculty is very low. Three years of pay freezes and internal SFA messaging is saying to expect indefinite upcoming years of pay freezes. This makes it almost impossible to attract and retain faculty and staff if they know that no matter how they perform, their pay won't change for potentially many years. The 4% one-time payment the Board authorized this year is a belated recognition of the problem.
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SFAJack_76
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In reply to NacMan • 8:46p, 8/20/22
NacMan said:
SFA88 said:
drangel said:
Possible names:

1. UT SFA, UT Stephen F. AUSTIN, or UT Nacogdoches

2. Stephen F. Austin State University - Member of the Texas A&M University System

3. No change with Texas Tech or Texas State Systems.

4. Stephen F. Austin State University remain unaffiliated.


1. Nope
2. Like Tarrelton so ok
3. Tech ok Texas State nope
4. I'm ok with it but it seems to be less and less viable. An affiliation could help fight off UT Tyler.
As someone who has worked at SFA for about two decades, I'd say #4 is totally not viable. Maybe people don't see it from the outside, but internally morale among staff and faculty is very low. Three years of pay freezes and internal SFA messaging is saying to expect indefinite upcoming years of pay freezes. This makes it almost impossible to attract and retain faculty and staff if they know that no matter how they perform, their pay won't change for potentially many years. The 4% one-time payment the Board authorized this year is a belated recognition of the problem.
Agree. It has to change.
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TallTexan
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In reply to SFAJack_76 • 11:52a, 8/21/22
I'm in agreement with you guys. Our faculty and staff are struggling, as is our enrollment. They all want to do a great job and mold young minds, but so much of the world has changed around us and SFA as an independent has struggled to keep up.

Additionally, a Texas, Tech, or A&M affiliation & resources combined with our community and brand, should rocket us past Sam & others in academic prestige & on campus experience.

It seems the best path forward for the future of SFA.
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SFA Jack Fanatic
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1:20p, 8/21/22
The key question in my wind is an obvious one. Which of the options mentioned here would provide SFA with the best financial outcome over the long term? And what other schools have been in similar situations that we can learn from?

To me, debating about potential names is a useless exercise.
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SFA88
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In reply to SFAJack_76 • 1:20p, 8/21/22
I know several of our old buddies are in it, but I don't think the Texas State system achieves the goal of bringing prestige. It would seem like not belonging to a system. I'm 59. I was born in Nacogdoches I have lived outside of Nac for 34 years. Having said that, many of my relatives still live in Nacogdoches County or a nearby county. My parents grew up in Trawick and Nacogdoches. My grandparents traveled by covered wagon. The point is the roots go back far and deep. Other than the belief that Texas State is the wrong answer, I don't care which system it is. BUT, changing the name from Stephen F. Austin is a nonstarter for me. I MIGHT be okay with Stephen F. Austin A&M (SFAAM? That's pretty close to canned meat. Our rivals will have fun with that one).
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SFA88
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In reply to SFA Jack Fanatic • 1:25p, 8/21/22
SFA Jack Fanatic said:
The key question in my wind is an obvious one. Which of the options mentioned here would provide SFA with the best financial outcome over the long term? And what other schools have been in similar situations that we can learn from?

To me, debating about potential names is a useless exercise.


Despite my love of the SFA name, you are correct. This is the right question. I assume getting an unbiased opinion from people around similar universities like Angelo State, Tarleton, East Texas State, before and after the transition is on the agenda.
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TallTexan
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In reply to SFA Jack Fanatic • 4:27p, 8/21/22
SFA Jack Fanatic said:
The key question in my wind is an obvious one. Which of the options mentioned here would provide SFA with the best financial outcome over the long term? And what other schools have been in similar situations that we can learn from?

To me, debating about potential names is a useless exercise.


To me, UT seems to invest the most in its system schools, but it also has the benefit of having finagled all of its schools into the PUF it seems, which would be much harder to do with SFA. There's also real political capital in the system and imo it would be safe to say it's a world class university system.

It's probably too early to say on Tech, but it also has the most recent additions, so any insights might be relevant. Versus UT & A&M added most schools back in the 60d and 70s. From what I've heard and read, the schools who've joined Tech seem happy with the system.

I have concerns about A&M. Namely, they seem happy to let their system schools languish while pushing more and more students to College Station. Tarleton is a PUF school in the system and the folks running the system left it without growth for decades. Only in the past 7-10 years has that changed.

Texas state system would be like being independent, still without money or large political power, but with our decision makers being spread across the state. This is the "joining a system just to hook a system" option, and makes the least sense to me.
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SFA Jack Fanatic
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In reply to TallTexan • 5:20p, 8/21/22
TallTexan said:
SFA Jack Fanatic said:
The key question in my wind is an obvious one. Which of the options mentioned here would provide SFA with the best financial outcome over the long term? And what other schools have been in similar situations that we can learn from?

To me, debating about potential names is a useless exercise.


To me, UT seems to invest the most in its system schools, but it also has the benefit of having finagled all of its schools into the PUF it seems, which would be much harder to do with SFA.

Pardon my ignorance, Texan, but what is PUF? I assume it is not a Magic Dragon.
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Pilotgirl
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In reply to SFA Jack Fanatic • 5:42p, 8/21/22
SFA Jack Fanatic said:
TallTexan said:
SFA Jack Fanatic said:
The key question in my wind is an obvious one. Which of the options mentioned here would provide SFA with the best financial outcome over the long term? And what other schools have been in similar situations that we can learn from?

To me, debating about potential names is a useless exercise.


To me, UT seems to invest the most in its system schools, but it also has the benefit of having finagled all of its schools into the PUF it seems, which would be much harder to do with SFA.

Pardon my ignorance, Texan, but what is PUF? I assume it is not a Magic Dragon.


Permanent University Fund
https://www.utsystem.edu/offices/chancellor/blog/what-is-the-permanent-university-fund
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djsfw57
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In reply to SFA Jack Fanatic • 6:38p, 8/21/22
SFA Jack Fanatic said:
TallTexan said:
SFA Jack Fanatic said:
The key question in my wind is an obvious one. Which of the options mentioned here would provide SFA with the best financial outcome over the long term? And what other schools have been in similar situations that we can learn from?

To me, debating about potential names is a useless exercise.


To me, UT seems to invest the most in its system schools, but it also has the benefit of having finagled all of its schools into the PUF it seems, which would be much harder to do with SFA.

Pardon my ignorance, Texan, but what is PUF? I assume it is not a Magic Dragon.
Glad you asked. I had no clue what it was.
SFA, Class of 1979
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BigJack85
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7:35p, 8/21/22
I don't think it's a forgone conclusion, that we enter a university system. To me the question is, how much of our identity remains.

I don't think this is entirely about money. Yes, the backend systems that a large system has will free up some money. It seems to me that SFA is a valuable commodity. We can't dictate the terms but we probably have some leverage. A few academic areas I think we could get help in, if we join a system: 1) Rural medicine initiatives. 2) Expand our engineering program. 3) A PHD in Environmental Science. Im sure there are more.
Axe 'Em Jacks - Class of 85'
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TallTexan
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In reply to BigJack85 • 6:26a, 8/22/22
We could probably swing an entire school of health. Not a medical school, but Physician Assistant, Physical Therapy, Admin, and everything else.

And probably more baseline PhD programs too, like Business.
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TallTexan
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6:34a, 8/22/22
PUF is the permanent university fund. Basically it's the oil holdings from West Texas that fuel UT and A&M. There are restrictions on how it can be used, but it's an endowment of over 15 billion just for those schools.

And not every institution in the system qualifies. Since the late 60s iirc, only new institutions in either system are automatically eligible. Hence why UT RGV was formed as a new entity from Pan American and UT Brownsville. And schools like Commerce and Corpus are not included(though I'm unsure why A&M didn't figure out how to make them qualify).

The state created an alternative to the PUF decades ago for the rest of us, but in typical Texas fashion has never fully funded it for it to go into operation.
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SFA88
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In reply to TallTexan • 6:39p, 8/22/22
TallTexan said:
We could probably swing an entire school of health. Not a medical school, but Physician Assistant, Physical Therapy, Admin, and everything else.

And probably more baseline PhD programs too, like Business.


I hope your thoughts and BigJack's thoughts come to pass. If SFA had engineering, I would probably be an engineer today.

My understanding is that PT is undeserved at universities. University of Arizona has a top notch medical school but around here if you want to be a Physical Therapist, Northern Arizona University has the best program.

Sorry to keep going back to Arizona schools for examples but it is what I know from conversations with friends, family, and colleagues.
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BigJack85
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In reply to SFA88 • 7:13p, 8/22/22
SFA88 said:
TallTexan said:
We could probably swing an entire school of health. Not a medical school, but Physician Assistant, Physical Therapy, Admin, and everything else.

And probably more baseline PhD programs too, like Business.


I hope your thoughts and BigJack's thoughts come to pass. If SFA had engineering, I would probably be an engineer today.

My understanding is that PT is undeserved at universities. University of Arizona has a top notch medical school but around here if you want to be a Physical Therapist, Northern Arizona University has the best program.

Sorry to keep going back to Arizona schools for examples but it is what I know from conversations with friends, family, and colleagues.


SFA does have engineering. BS in Electrical and Mechanical. My hope is that we can swing adding Civil. Add environmental science as a PHD program.
Axe 'Em Jacks - Class of 85'
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PurpleOut
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8:31p, 8/22/22
Staff
Here is where you can find some details, but also the online form to submit you input.
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Pilotgirl
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8:52p, 8/22/22
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nacluth
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9:13p, 8/22/22
Thanks Pilotgirl!
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PurpleOut
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9:15p, 8/22/22
Staff
Was just coming to post that. Looks to be the only of the 4 to post anything about it/us.
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nacluth
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In reply to PurpleOut • 9:19p, 8/22/22
The Texas Tribune article has the comments from the other schools…except UT. They don't care to comment.
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SFA Jack Fanatic
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11:09p, 8/22/22
Does anyone have a list (or lists) that identifies all of the schools that are members of the four systems being considered? (I know I could research this and come up with a list myself, but if anyone already has one that would be great. Besides, I admit that I'm a bit lazy...)
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cboothe09
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8:09a, 8/23/22
Texas State: Lamar, Sam Houston, Sul Ross, Texas State, Lamar Institute of Technology, Lamar State College Orange, Lamar State College Port Arthur

Texas Tech: Texas Tech, Texas Tech University Health Sciences Center, Angelo State, Texas Texas University Health Sciences Center El Paso, Midwestern State University

Texas A&M: Texas A&M, Prairie View A&M, A&M Commerce, Tarleton State, West Texas A&M, Texas A&M Kingsville, Texas A&M Corpus Christi, Texas A&M International, Texas A&M Texarkana, Texas A&M Central Texas, Texas A&M San Antonio

Texas: UT Arlington, UT Austin, UT Dallas, UT El Paso, UT Permian Basin, UT Rio Grand Valley, UT San Antonio, UT Tyler
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SFA Jack Fanatic
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8:28a, 8/23/22
Fantastic! Thanks, 09.
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SFA Jack Fanatic
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In reply to SFA Jack Fanatic • 8:33a, 8/23/22
SFA Jack Fanatic said:
Fantastic! Thanks, 09.


1) I had no idea that Prison Tech and Lamar were in the Texas State system.

2) I think there is adequate proof that SFA would not have to have a name change, as long as we steer clear from UT.
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TallTexan
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In reply to SFA Jack Fanatic • 11:18a, 8/23/22
I know a couple folks at Sam and when I asked about the TX State system they said its like being the unwanted stepchild next to the golden child of TX St.

They strongly recommended we take any other offer.
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SFAXE93
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4:24p, 8/23/22
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SFAJack_76
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In reply to TallTexan • 8:34p, 8/23/22
TallTexan said:
I know a couple folks at Sam and when I asked about the TX State system they said its like being the unwanted stepchild next to the golden child of TX St.

They strongly recommended we take any other offer.
In my feedback, I said that I thought SFA would add more to the Texas State system than it would add to SFA.
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TallTexan
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In reply to SFAJack_76 • 8:59p, 8/23/22
SFAJack_76 said:
TallTexan said:
I know a couple folks at Sam and when I asked about the TX State system they said its like being the unwanted stepchild next to the golden child of TX St.

They strongly recommended we take any other offer.
In my feedback, I said that I thought SFA would add more to the Texas State system than it would add to SFA.
An astute observation.
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Pilotgirl
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In reply to TallTexan • 9:06a, 8/24/22
TallTexan said:
SFAJack_76 said:
TallTexan said:
I know a couple folks at Sam and when I asked about the TX State system they said its like being the unwanted stepchild next to the golden child of TX St.

They strongly recommended we take any other offer.
In my feedback, I said that I thought SFA would add more to the Texas State system than it would add to SFA.
An astute observation.
Alan makes astute observations on a daily basis.
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TylerJack
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9:29a, 8/24/22
Longtime reader, wanted to register and share some thoughts.

I've been reading a lot of comments on social media and for the people that want to stay independent or no to joining a system...they don't ever have any reasoning. I'm curious more than anything else, what would be the reasoning to being independent at this point? Just cause?

Unless I'm missing something, I don't think there would be any changes that would really stand out to the eye. Or to the average person. I doubt many people even know that Sam Houston or Lamar are in a system. I've been on their campuses, and I don't remember seeing anything about that. Even on their websites, all I see is a small "Member of the Texas State University System" graphic at the bottom of their footer.

Just my opinion.
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BigJack85
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In reply to TylerJack • 10:09a, 8/24/22
TylerJack said:
Longtime reader, wanted to register and share some thoughts.

I've been reading a lot of comments on social media and for the people that want to stay independent or no to joining a system...they don't ever have any reasoning. I'm curious more than anything else, what would be the reasoning to being independent at this point? Just cause?

Unless I'm missing something, I don't think there would be any changes that would really stand out to the eye. Or to the average person. I doubt many people even know that Sam Houston or Lamar are in a system. I've been on their campuses, and I don't remember seeing anything about that. Even on their websites, all I see is a small "Member of the Texas State University System" graphic at the bottom of their footer.

Just my opinion.


You make the key point. Unless we move to UT System or A&M System, I don't see significant changes.
Axe 'Em Jacks - Class of 85'
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TylerJack
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10:26a, 8/24/22
I figure that each deal that is presented, each system will have a piece around branding and how they would require us to use their system name. I looked at the Tarleton site just now, and they have "Member of the Texas A&M System" in their main logo. I still have no problem with that to be honest.

I think it's pretty clear, that as a university, we are not and have not been taking steps forward. If anything...it's backwards. I do hope that someone is able to present more of a pros and cons to not only the idea, but to each system.
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TallTexan
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In reply to TylerJack • 10:38a, 8/24/22
TylerJack said:
I figure that each deal that is presented, each system will have a piece around branding and how they would require us to use their system name. I looked at the Tarleton site just now, and they have "Member of the Texas A&M System" in their main logo. I still have no problem with that to be honest.

I think it's pretty clear, that as a university, we are not and have not been taking steps forward. If anything...it's backwards. I do hope that someone is able to present more of a pros and cons to not only the idea, but to each system.
I've also been curious what the nature of these proposals to join a system will look like. Is it highly specific like "hey, we can get SFA 100 mil from the legislature, 3k new students, & an engineering college?"

Or are they more focused around branding & just system advantages?

Man I'd love to be a fly on the wall in all of this.
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