Which conference would you move to?

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sfa17
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11:17p, 10/7/20
WAC doesn't have football. the only way SUU,SAM or us would go to WAC would be if they were to create a fcs football conference. Wouldn't makes sense. Also NMSU football is currently independently FBS. They would probably like to stay that way even with WAC Change. I don't see the advantage of moving from 31th conference to 27th. Wouldn't make a difference plus more travel.

I would rather just wait for a huge shake up across multiple conference and then we make our move to a newly created conference with bb first.
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TallTexan
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In reply to sfa17 • 8:58a, 10/8/20
How do they calculate conference basketball strength?
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nacluth
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In reply to TallTexan • 11:25a, 10/8/20
TallTexan said:
How do they calculate conference basketball strength?
A variety of ways, but usually it's average KenPom or average RPI. The thing is the difference between the bottom 10 or so conferences is negligible.

They each have one decent team that can surprise a P5 school now and then, and the have another team or two that can make things interesting, and then a bunch of bottom dwellers.

Cal Baptist, NMSU may end up being stronger basketball competition than Sam and ACU in the near term, but on a whole the WAC isn't as complete a bottom tier conference as the Southland.
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SFASawmillGuy
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In reply to nacluth • 3:28p, 10/8/20
I agree. I think the WAC would be interesting because it'd be new opponents but not necessarily better opponents.
I think a change in conference would have to be an improvement in all areas. Football, basketball, everything.
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BigJack85
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5:24p, 10/8/20
Look at what the Atlantic Sun did. I read the entire press release and background. Basically they are cramming a bunch of teams under two divisions... errr sort of . then sort it out after 3 years of alignment trials. I'm not sold on it at all but it is an interesting concept. The easiest would be for HBU, UIW and A&M CC to realize they don't belong in the SLC and accept the overtures from the WAC.
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SFAJack_76
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4:48p, 10/22/20
Interesting. HBU isn't happening.
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TallTexan
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4:56p, 10/22/20
Interesting. I saw matt Brown posted this morning they were still considering expanding but it didn't say who.

I don't hate the idea tbh.
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PurpleOut
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6:07p, 10/22/20
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I don't really care for it.

It would be better overall than the Southland, but by how much? What does it actually achieve in the long run? Do we need to jump at the first offer/option? A bunch of new programs and/or new D1 schools.

Count me 80/20 against it.
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TallTexan
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In reply to PurpleOut • 7:58p, 10/22/20
PurpleOut said:
I don't really care for it.

It would be better overall than the Southland, but by how much? What does it actually achieve in the long run? Do we need to jump at the first offer/option? A bunch of new programs and/or new D1 schools.

Count me 80/20 against it.
.

That's probably where I'm at. 70/30 at best.

If it were NM,NMSU, UTEP plus those Southland schools and Tarleton I'd say go for it.

But Dixie State and the Utah schools really don't do it for me.

My goal isn't WAC. It's CUSA.
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cboothe09
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8:15p, 10/22/20
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SFASawmillGuy
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8:43p, 10/22/20
So I've been thinking about it and my opinion on it is split.

On one hand, the WAC does have a really good history, albeit with other schools, and NMSU and SFA being in the same conference would automatically make it a stronger basketball conference than the Southland.

But all the schools that are new to D1 scare me. The talent gap I think would be massively one sided at first, especially in football, and there's no promise that the other schools would ever get to the level we would want them to be in terms of competition.

But then there's the SLC, which I have thought for a while is a pretty poor conference all around. In basketball it's one of the worst, we keep it afloat. Football always seems strong but for the most part I'd say it's one of the weaker FCS conferences in terms of overall talent. SFA, ACU, and Sam Houston seem to be the only SLC members really trying to improve as well. We see sparks of life from the other schools at times, but really the SLC is not a good home.

CUSA I think would be a little better, and I certainly would love to see us playing FBS football and getting a lot better opponents more often, but I'm not sure that CUSA is good enough to justify the move.

The way I see it, the WAC is a gamble. I think if we go there, it is with the hope that it will rise to the level it once was and be a very well respected conference in all sports. But it's basically a conference of start up programs that's well funded. If the other schools don't get off the ground we would essentially be right back to square one, but now with a much higher travel budget.

I think Ivey is considering it honestly, but his decision, as well as the decisions of the other prospective schools, will make a huge impact one way or another in each schools future. It'll either be the best decision ever or a trainwreck.
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sfa17
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8:43p, 10/22/20
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SFASawmillGuy
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In reply to sfa17 • 8:51p, 10/22/20
From what I can tell it's all speculation at this point. Rumors. Nothing concrete but the possibility still exists.
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TallTexan
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9:53p, 10/22/20
There are worse options for the next 4-5 years of SFA sports than some of the better football & basketball teams abandoning the conference.

Sure we'll have to prove it in the post season, but we could go on a run in all major sports that would coincide with that craziness of 2024-2025 alignment.
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TallTexan
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9:54p, 10/22/20
CUSA is a good option bc of who we would play. Puts us on a tier with UTSA/Rice/UNT. Not with Cal Baptist.

The travel isn't great, but I think the Sunbelt and CUSA will probably realign a good bit to more regional if given the chance.
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nacluth
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10:11p, 10/22/20
Honestly ACU probably is a good fit in most things for the WAC. Travel would not be that far, and if they are expanding as much as all the rumors suggest, they may have an eastern region which would work well. Sam, SFA, and Lamar make no sense. I will be happy to give them Lamar without hesitation though.
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sfa17
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10:29p, 10/22/20
What New Mexico State Forum have to say about move

https://247sports.com/college/new-mexico-state/board/103615/Contents/new-thread-on-wac-membership-153313273/?page=1
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PurpleOut
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8:23a, 10/23/20
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I agree with them. I just don't see a huge benefit. A slight increase in overall competition, and as mentioned a great hoops match-up with SFA/NMSU. But is it worth having to spend more and invest more to travel that far.

As someone, as you know, that is extremely hoops biased, I want to know a move to a bigger conference at least gives us a chance at an at-large bid. The WAC is better in basketball, but not a ton. A few years ago they as a conference were actually behind the SLC in the RPI (not normal however). Adding us would strengthen it, but how much does ACU, Sam and Lamar actually make it? Not a ton in my eyes, at least not enough to make it more enticing.

NMSU had some really good teams over the past decade, but take a look at where they were seeded last:

12
12
14
15
13
13
13
12
13
14

So they're in a better hoops league, but got the same seed as us. I just don't see the need to move right now if it's not going to significantly strengthen our position.

Again this is all speculation anyway. We don't know what their plan really is for football and that's a major factor. And we, as fans, don't truly know the economical and financial impact. Ivey has only been here a few years, and we can see his vision and see where we are heading. I say let us keep building his vision here for a few more years and shoot for something better later.
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SFAXE93
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9:09a, 10/23/20
Agree, the WAC is at best a lateral move.
"History has no rubbish heap." Louis Blake Duff
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SFA Jack Fanatic
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In reply to sfa17 • 9:37a, 10/23/20
sfa17 said:
What New Mexico State Forum have to say about move

https://247sports.com/college/new-mexico-state/board/103615/Contents/new-thread-on-wac-membership-153313273/?page=1

I noticed a couple of laughable comments about Tarleton in their thread...

1) The Tarleton people say the WAC is a much better conference than the SLC. (Yeah, lots of knowledge and personal experience coming from those D-II peoples' little brains, right?)

2) Tarleton has FBS aspirations. (Sure. But why stop at the FBS level? Go for NFL and MBA memberships, Tarleton.)
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cboothe09
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In reply to SFAXE93 • 9:53a, 10/23/20
I tend to agree, but I also think adding SFA, Sam, ACU, and Lamar could help give the WAC a boost. SFA and ACU automatically help the WAC get a little stronger, increasing but not assuring chances of at-large bids.

Lamar spends money. That isn't a problem so I think a move could help them, and at the least they won't be a detriment to the WAC. Sam is the wild card. Athletically they will be competitive. They always are. Will they spend money, and will this move help them raise money?

If this move can get more money flowing to these athletic departments, I think you see spending go up and our competitive abilities see rise. Maybe we see an improvement in facilities (Indoor football).

I'm actually now against a new on-campus baseball facility. I'm almost to the point of saying SFA should buy out the City of Nacogdoches for the current fields and raze the little league fields to add parking and make MASSIVE upgrades to the baseball/softball complexes...

It all kind of snowballs from there...Facilities lead to better players and player development. Better development leads to better results. Results help conference look better...
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TallTexan
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In reply to cboothe09 • 1:37p, 10/23/20
If we bought out the baseball complex, I'd be in favor of moving track out there.
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SFAJack_76
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3:53p, 10/23/20
Not in agreement that the WAC would be a lateral move. The three years prior to last, WAC MBB had an RPI of 15, 16, and 17. Out of 32, and dramatically better than the SLC stuck at 30. Put the mentioned SLC schools in the mix, and it gets even better. NM State is solid. GCU is improving under Bryce Drew, who was very successful at Valpo. Tarleton could be legit with Gillispie as coach. Who in the SLC is getting better? Why can't the WAC get to being a multi bid league?

Consider not what the WAC is, but what it could be. Go to divisions for the Olympic sports, and you significantly reduce potential travel costs. Chicago State is toast. They can't afford to be in the WAC much longer.

CUSA or Sun Belt would be nice. Our budget is currently way below being able to make that significant a jump. Probably in the $8-12 million per year range. Do we believe that in the SLC we can ever get to that level of revenue, or do we take the next step now?

We all agree, I think, that we can't be the best mid major athletic program in the country under current circumstances. Can we even sniff being that as a member of the Southland Conference? How many years are we okay with being mired in mediocrity? We've treaded water for the ten years since UTA, UTSA, and Texas State left. Make a move. Expand the brand. If not now, when?

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SFASawmillGuy
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4:08p, 10/23/20
Not for nothing. But Ryan Ivey did like several tweets in favor of the move before quickly going back and unliking them.

Honestly SFA staying in the Southland longer than 10 more years is not going to happen. Ivey wants the change. Colby wants the change. Everyone wants it. It's nice winning the SLC in basketball every year but the current administration has higher aspirations than being the shiniest turd in a garbage conference.

Is the WAC the best move? I'm not sure. The goal of the administration from what I've heard is for SFA to be in an FBS conference at some point. That move gives SFA better opponents and more respect in every sport.

Rumors are that the WAC will obviously start as an FCS conference with aspirations to become an FBS conference in the next decade or so. Is that going to happen? Who knows. They certainly have a much larger budget than the Southland conference so they could certainly help all the institutions make that happen but it will still be a long term goal.

I agree that having to compete with NMSU would keep us from winning the conference every year and we might miss the tournament some years. In CUSA I bet we miss it more often than that.

But better quality opponents combined with a tougher conference and that more even playing field I think gives us a lot more national respect, gets us higher seeding in the NCAA tournament, and gets us higher quality recruits more often.

Are we going to win a national championship at the FCS level? I think with Carthel the odds are very good we compete for one. Will we ever win one at the FBS level? Probably not. But I'd take us being a bowl eligible football team if that meant eventually being the new Gonzaga or Villanova.

And if we can get to that level without leaving the FCS, I'm fine with that too.
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PurpleOut
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In reply to SFAJack_76 • 4:56p, 10/23/20
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SFAJack_76 said:
Not in agreement that the WAC would be a lateral move. The three years prior to last, WAC MBB had an RPI of 15, 16, and 17. Out of 32, and dramatically better than the SLC stuck at 30. Put the mentioned SLC schools in the mix, and it gets even better. NM State is solid. GCU is improving under Bryce Drew, who was very successful at Valpo. Tarleton could be legit with Gillispie as coach. Who in the SLC is getting better? Why can't the WAC get to being a multi bid league?
And two years prior they were 31st (behind the SLC). Regardless of that year, even in their best years as a conference...their best team (NMSU) could only get a 12-seed. Being an average to below average RPI conference will rarely be in the conversation for an auto-bid.
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cboothe09
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In reply to TallTexan • 5:55p, 10/23/20
Never considered that....That would make that move even more enticing.

Since we have invested into that property with the pitching lab and updated cages, why not go all out and build full facilities. Help the city find new location for little league and use that property to give our baseball something really nice
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SFAJack_76
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In reply to cboothe09 • 7:40p, 10/23/20
cboothe09 said:
Never considered that....That would make that move even more enticing.

Since we have invested into that property with the pitching lab and updated cages, why not go all out and build full facilities. Help the city find new location for little league and use that property to give our baseball something really nice
Nothing happens with baseball that doesn't include softball.
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SFAJack_76
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In reply to PurpleOut • 7:41p, 10/23/20
PurpleOut said:
SFAJack_76 said:
Not in agreement that the WAC would be a lateral move. The three years prior to last, WAC MBB had an RPI of 15, 16, and 17. Out of 32, and dramatically better than the SLC stuck at 30. Put the mentioned SLC schools in the mix, and it gets even better. NM State is solid. GCU is improving under Bryce Drew, who was very successful at Valpo. Tarleton could be legit with Gillispie as coach. Who in the SLC is getting better? Why can't the WAC get to being a multi bid league?
And two years prior they were 31st (behind the SLC). Regardless of that year, even in their best years as a conference...their best team (NMSU) could only get a 12-seed. Being an average to below average RPI conference will rarely be in the conversation for an auto-bid.
Upside potential with the WAC vs upside potential with the SLC. No contest.
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PurpleOut
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In reply to SFAJack_76 • 7:52p, 10/23/20
Staff
SFAJack_76 said:
PurpleOut said:
SFAJack_76 said:
Not in agreement that the WAC would be a lateral move. The three years prior to last, WAC MBB had an RPI of 15, 16, and 17. Out of 32, and dramatically better than the SLC stuck at 30. Put the mentioned SLC schools in the mix, and it gets even better. NM State is solid. GCU is improving under Bryce Drew, who was very successful at Valpo. Tarleton could be legit with Gillispie as coach. Who in the SLC is getting better? Why can't the WAC get to being a multi bid league?
And two years prior they were 31st (behind the SLC). Regardless of that year, even in their best years as a conference...their best team (NMSU) could only get a 12-seed. Being an average to below average RPI conference will rarely be in the conversation for an auto-bid.
Upside potential with the WAC vs upside potential with the SLC. No contest.
What makes it no contest for you? Not arguing just curious of your reasoning.

We'd have to invest more...to potentially have a tougher route...to potentially achieve the same result.

And that's just for hoops. We'd have to invest a ton more to get our other programs to travel to California, Seattle, etc on a continuous basis.
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cboothe09
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In reply to SFAJack_76 • 8:42p, 10/23/20
As it should be, but buying out the city, a lot could be done for baseball and softball. REAL home and visitor clubhouses. Updated parking. Real press box instead of a portable building on risers (better than the portable building on cinder blocks).
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BigJack85
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9:12p, 10/23/20
Flying kids to Seattle for a volleyball game makes no sense. Even if we were organized (divisions) into pods we would inevitably be making some of these type of trips. Based on some of the studies that Tarleton had done, they are budgeting an additional $750,000/$1,000,000 for travel. That doesn't count the disruption that occurs for the student athletes.
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BigJack85
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9:16p, 10/23/20
From the research I've done the only plausible options for SFA are 1) C-USA think we're a fit. 2). Sunbelt thinks we're a fit. Not likely. 3) SLC gets better.
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TallTexan
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In reply to BigJack85 • 9:45p, 10/23/20
BigJack85 said:
From the research I've done the only plausible options for SFA are 1) C-USA think we're a fit. 2). Sunbelt thinks we're a fit. Not likely. 3) SLC gets better.
To me, that represents two levels of jumps. Option 3 works for a little while. I don't ever see it being a better conference, perhaps more competitive but that doesn't really help us. We'll make our hay with wins in Non Conference and wins in March.

The play to me is to use the Southland to win as many games as possible for the next 5 years. In all sports. Crush the competition.

Then, with a FCS playoff contender, SFA men's & women's basketball & volleyball at the top levels, we can be more strategic in choosing a destination. We don't even know if some of these conferences will exist after the next round of TV realignment. The WAC would be happy to have us on the strength of our Duke win. But who would be happy to have us with a Sweet 16 or higher under our belt?

WAC(barring some plan to move everyone to FBS) just isn't enough of a sure upgrade to make it worth the downsides.
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SFASawmillGuy
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In reply to BigJack85 • 9:55p, 10/23/20
The sunbelt absolutely wouldn't make sense. Competitively they're not much better in any sport than the Southland conference. The only thing they could offer us is FBS football, but honestly their football programs would probably have an okay record against an FCS schedule.
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TallTexan
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In reply to SFASawmillGuy • 11:21p, 10/23/20
SFA_03 said:
The sunbelt absolutely wouldn't make sense. Competitively they're not much better in any sport than the Southland conference. The only thing they could offer us is FBS football, but honestly their football programs would probably have an okay record against an FCS schedule.


Sunbelt(random big 12 wins notwithstanding) is essentially a conference of FCS schools playing a level too high.
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