2024-2025 Lumberjack Basketball

17,212 Views | 187 Replies | Last: 10 hrs ago by Jacks1989
BigJack85
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Jackincharge said:

I'm sorry it's hard for you to quantify his actual meaning to the program so you claim ignorance as the issue but please show me success as a whole and the justification of his salary? His kids never graduate cause he runs them off .. has zero eye for talent .. or feel for how to coach kids once they end up on campus with his sadistical and brainwashing techniques he thinks actually work … all the while taking advantage of kids who have a dream of playing basketball ball at a high level for a program that has won at a high level until this dingbat got here. Do me a favor BIGJack .. ask the people who work with him if they stand by him? Not the sheep donors but the actual people who have to watch this comical coaching job play out day to day. I challenge you to find one (1) person who works with him day to day who would vouch for him and his character on any level. Try again big guy!


I won't get into conversation. One losing season out of 8 , isn't bad. Given the caliber of competition we play juxtaposed against our budget I think WE DO get good return. Was last year a disappointment? Hell yes.

To me the more relevant question is, who would we get for what we pay Keller? Program stability is important to long-term success. I lived through Ned Fowler and his assistant. It took Danny 6-7 years to pull that truck out of the ditch. I just don't see a good reason to dump a 66% winning percentage coach after a couple of subpar seasons.
Axe 'Em Jacks - Class of 85'
nacluth
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I agree 85. The real question is who would we go to? I'm sure there's people out there, but it's not like they're a dime a dozen. Keller has been successful from a wins-losses standpoint. We have been in the conversation most years.

I feel for the fans and "insiders" who say the system is broken and Coach needs to go. If the fans and donors lose heart, then it's time for a change. However, if everyone that works for Keller hates him, the students are worn down and psychologically abused and every other thing he's being accused of, then it's the AD who has failed. If things are bad, then the buck stops at one place. And we're really accusing Ivey of failing at his job.
BigJack85
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nacluth said:

I agree 85. The real question is who would we go to? I'm sure there's people out there, but it's not like they're a dime a dozen. Keller has been successful from a wins-losses standpoint. We have been in the conversation most years.

I feel for the fans and "insiders" who say the system is broken and Coach needs to go. If the fans and donors lose heart, then it's time for a change. However, if everyone that works for Keller hates him, the students are worn down and psychologically abused and every other thing he's being accused of, then it's the AD who has failed. If things are bad, then the buck stops at one place. And we're really accusing Ivey of failing at his job.



The new AD would be naive if he thinks the best coaches don't push their players hard. I don't think Ivey failed. Keller seems adaptable. I'm not an insider so I can't speak to details. I've met him and chatted a few times. Like all of us he (Keller) has weaknesses. Competing hard, is not one of them. IMO we had mid-level WAC talent last year. Losing AJ was the back breaker. Keller's system relies on exceptional guard play/pace.

If we had the "exact" same team in the dingy SLC we win 22 games and probably finish 2nd or 3rd and make a run at McNeese in the tourney . Many of the "scoreboard observers" would have been pacified. It takes more in the WAC, and frankly retaining Hayman, Nana, Jenkins and Christmas probably puts us in the top 3-4 returning talent in the WAC. Still LOTS of work to do. PG PG + SG SG and at least one PF. Keller has surprised us before 19/20
Axe 'Em Jacks - Class of 85'
Jackincharge
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There are tons of successful coaches out there who know how to win. Sam Houston and Bobby Williams know how to churn out great coaches since bob marlins days! The man makes 550k and won't play anybody unless he thinks it's a power 5 he can knock off or a naia .. I don't have time to check and frankly the homers will say all schools do this (which is not true) but if u take off the naia schools that are just scrimmages what is his actual win percentage ?? Not 66%. 20 wins is a must in college basketball nowadays .. that's the standard .. he has lost more championships than he has won and he has won (3) career conference tourney games and zero post season games and has one actual three way tie for a conference championship and one outright conference championship.. outside of that his teams are so worn down and tired of playing for him that they don't actually do anything when they should be peaking! Stark contrast from the little known asst at Sam Houston who in his first year in a new conference had our staunch rival playing and competing for championships .. with a whole new roster.. its called coaching and we are on the short end of the stick most of the time .. and that wonderful facility should be leveling the playing field but his reputation kills that feather from the start! Has to recruit juco hard cause no player can deal with him longer than two years .. day day hall regressed yearly with him to the point of transfer .. that's mismanagement folks .. but hey WE BEAT DUKE!

Go make an offer to the west Texas A&M coach and see what you get: Tom Brown record: 236-57 (.805) that's like mark Kellogg level production !

Def not Ivey fault he was stuck with him and the sorry boosters who support his snake oil bs.
Jacks4460
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Jackincharge has some good points.. some of what he says is true.. i think coach should be put on the hot seat and I am a Keller supporter.. it's time to move forward if he doesnt produce... that West Tx AM coach would be a good hire..
BigJack85
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Jackincharge said:

There are tons of successful coaches out there who know how to win. Sam Houston and Bobby Williams know how to churn out great coaches since bob marlins days! The man makes 550k and won't play anybody unless he thinks it's a power 5 he can knock off or a naia .. I don't have time to check and frankly the homers will say all schools do this (which is not true) but if u take off the naia schools that are just scrimmages what is his actual win percentage ?? Not 66%. 20 wins is a must in college basketball nowadays .. that's the standard .. he has lost more championships than he has won and he has won (3) career conference tourney games and zero post season games and has one actual three way tie for a conference championship and one outright conference championship.. outside of that his teams are so worn down and tired of playing for him that they don't actually do anything when they should be peaking! Stark contrast from the little known asst at Sam Houston who in his first year in a new conference had our staunch rival playing and competing for championships .. with a whole new roster.. its called coaching and we are on the short end of the stick most of the time .. and that wonderful facility should be leveling the playing field but his reputation kills that feather from the start! Has to recruit juco hard cause no player can deal with him longer than two years .. day day hall regressed yearly with him to the point of transfer .. that's mismanagement folks .. but hey WE BEAT DUKE!

Go make an offer to the west Texas A&M coach and see what you get: Tom Brown record: 236-57 (.805) that's like mark Kellogg level production !

Def not Ivey fault he was stuck with him and the sorry boosters who support his snake oil bs.


Do you remember the late 80's when we went the D2 route. Mike Martin was his name. Had remarkable success at ACU. 80% winning percentage. What did he do in D1 (SFA)? His best season at SFA he won 4 games.

Not saying that we can't find a candidate at the D2 level that can win. It's just a real "roll of the dice". How far back does your experience with Lumberjack basketball go? 2010?
AxeEm99
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So just curious when the admin is going to respond... THIS is 100% uncalled-for and is a clear representationof why SFA continually has issues!
Jacks1989
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Agree!
nacluth
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Please no personal attacks. Passion and disagreement are encouraged, but we don't call names or have open hostility. Thanks.
BigJack85
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Noted.
Axe 'Em Jacks - Class of 85'
Jacks1989
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Been quiet on the recruiting front. I wonder if they will try to bring in some high schoolers this year?
Jackincharge
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I'm glad to see we have passion one way or the other. It's just sad to see how far down trodden the program is after the 9 years of support we have given this coach! I'm not saying there is an easy solution but I think we have to think outside the box and that the program needs new life and new blood in the building .. it feels like a broken record every season .. all you boosters on here have to admit that in some form or fashion we rewind and play the same movie .. so are we really using our money wisely in the support of his program if we are doing the same thing every year and expecting different results. It's impossible to change a zebras stripes .. they are who they are .. Keller is who he is ! We as supporters have to stand up and say something before this program falls farther and farther into mediocrity.. GCU / CBU ain't standing pat and UTA made a hell of a hire as well .. Seattle if u study what they are doing internally are moving the needle .. we have to challenge the status quo asap.
Jackincharge
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Yeah I'm not that old and basketball is a different beast now than in the 80's with this Mike Martin character … let's go out and get the guy we should have hired in the first place off Brad's staff .. Mike Boyton.. he is available and is a hell of a leader of young men and runs a stand up program with character and the people who work with him love him! Hopefully the old money in the town can get out of their own way .. buy this dude out and hire Boyton! When all else fails .. hire GOOD people!
No-look
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So you're saying we have the Dallas Cowboys syndrome? Lol
SFA Jack Fanatic
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Thank you!
jboy93
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I couldn't resist! lol
FBK_Lumberjack
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Ooof, the truth hurts for some of y'all in here. Keep carrying water for Keller, I'm sure this will be our year! And if not this year, maybe next year! Surely then we'll see progression instead of regression!

And hey, if we can't count on the on-court success in wins and losses, at least we can rest easy knowing his program is doing all the other things right, like academics and community service. At least he and his staff are well liked in the athletic department, respect the other coaches and admin and don't routinely cause problems for everyone that's just trying to do their jobs. Right?!?

ServiceJack88
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FBK_Lumberjack said:

Ooof, the truth hurts for some of y'all in here. Keep carrying water for Keller, I'm sure this will be our year! And if not this year, maybe next year! Surely then we'll see progression instead of regression!

And hey, if we can't count on the on-court success in wins and losses, at least we can rest easy knowing his program is doing all the other things right, like academics and community service. At least he and his staff are well liked in the athletic department, respect the other coaches and admin and don't routinely cause problems for everyone that's just trying to do their jobs. Right?!?


Please say this louder for the people in the back. While JIC has a rather unique was of saying things, his statements have a lot of backing behind them. Very big facts. It is very disturbing the amount of individuals that have blinders on when it comes to this situation.

I know for me personally but probably FBK and JIC as well, we are coming from connections to the program and want to see it do amazing things. It can not and will not as long as Keller is at the helm. Disagree all you want but go have a conversation with a certain JD and you might get more information that would open your eyes.

HOWEVER if we want to look ahead for next season, where are we at? Why do we not have any big name splashes? What/whom is going to change the trajectory of where we are currently at. Stagnant. Supposedly we were going hard after the player from Kilgore. Did you see where he signed? Should seem awfully familiar.

Everyone is frustrated. I think we can all agree on that.
AxeEm99
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Well said ServiceJack88!

I agree everyone is frustrated. My biggest frustration is that Athletics as a whole has missed countless opportunities to achieve greatness and be the next GCU or SH mainly because of conservative mismanagement over decades. Then you throw in NIL and the Portal and now we have major complex issues that we will likely not overcome anytime soon.

I personally like Keller and I do not believe the problems are all because of him. It is a much bigger issue. Unfortunately, the next several coaches we hire, then fire, in multiple sports will have to deal with this same thing.... Unless NIL and the Portal go away, the coaching carousel is back at SFA!

Please note: Ivey was a step in the right direction to right the ship but he used us as a stepping stone. Truth is, we were too far gone from the previous 30+ years of mismanagement for him to have any success without staying for his entire remaining career.
Ljacks&Longnecks
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88, you have implied many times that we (the fans) would be shocked at what goes on behind the scenes with Keller....however you never give us evidence or examples of his illegal or immoral actions.
You may be correct but why would we believe your posts without evidence.

Incharge and FKB do the same thing. You 3 may have inside info and have knowledge that those of us 220 miles away don't have. But, you come on and throw rocks at the rest of us because we don't fall to our knees and take your words as gospel. Give us the reasons you claim to know that show the need for immediate change.

I'm sure when Keller took this job his plan was to have some success here and move up the ladder. That's the norm for Mid Major coaches. 2020 would have done it had the season not been killed by Covid. It's certainly believable that Keller wants a job at a P5 school. What Keller does behind the curtain, most of us would have no way of knowing. Evidence still goes a long way in the world to prove a case or to awaken the sleepy supporters.
Give us examples not just a blanket--this is a bad guy---statement.

Staine's statement when thanking Jack Nation about "free the whole gang" does give me pause to consider why he said that----could be solid reasons or just a personal thing. Several guys going to the portal is a bad look but many other schools had many portal runners as well. 3 have returned here. Why, if it is so hellish.


Jackincharge
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I could sit here and tell you all the stories but you have to be ready to believe it .. problem is when ur apart of a cult you can't believes truths that are in plain sight.
1. The roster upheaval
2. 6 academic advisors in 8 years
3. 6 athletic trainers in 8 years (one of which left in middle of season)
4. Countless changes in sport admin
5. Coaching staff turnover
6. 4 strength coaches in 8 years
7. 4 or 5 DBO in last 8 years

… the issues are in plain sight … ask TJ Holyfield why there was nothing that would have had him back in a jacks jersey for his final year. Ask some of the former players what the real reason is they came back to GA for him was. I mean I got stories just don't know if y'all ready to hear them. No need to go there just rather stick to the facts of winning and losing and realization that he is not good at coaching .. that is the bottom line! Yes I'm a PLF member. Yes I am a member of the alumni association. No I do not donate to NIL or specifically to men's basketball as the ROI on that is zero currently. I will be donating to a real coach in Leonard Bishop and the lady jacks as he walked into a hard roster situation hustled his ass off to fill his roster and coached the hell out of the ladies and I can see with my own eyes at games that the arrow is pointing up! But I don't hear him out there in press conferences making excuses for losses ?! Why cause he was brought up under a great leader in Mark K. and just knows how to win instead of riding coattails like Keller. Yall tout Myles Jenkins coming back as a win .. dude damn near kicked him off the team a couple weeks into the season but ran back to him cause ain't no player actually want to play for Keller that's in the portal. Huge win for us and his whopping 8min a game (no fault of his own and hope he actually gets a chance) .. yall are such fans and have no idea what a team looks like or how its constructed. Frank Staine solid player but Keller never gave him a shot .. wasted talent and his last year. Dude had AJ on the bench cause he just didn't like him and over evaluated other PG on the roster and then realized he was gonna have to go back to AJ cause he was only guy who could create his own shot .. but took till middle of the season to figure that out … we have t actually been pressU since TJ Holyfield last year when went to the dance cause TJ was the athletic rotational player in his press and half court defensive sets and once he lost him and Nate Bain ( who he tried to get rid of also) he has never found guys to actually run that defense .. so it's actually a farse .. and coach cox was the master mind behind all the scouts and defensive wizardry anyways but high tailed out to utep as soon as he could. Contract is up in 2026 thank God!
Jackincharge
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Big Jack can you give me a couple of examples of how Keller seems adaptable?
Jackincharge
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Why did the players return? The answer is clear .. there were no other jobs out there for them or Keller convinced them they had no market? It's called poker and he plays them in the same way he plays the boosters and supporters. Good kids but the portal for all the glitz and the glam is not a fun place to be without guarantees. Dipped the toe in the portal realized the market wasn't there and boom now he gets to save them and now they are indebted again to him and the cycle starts again all over and he spins the story to yall like he retained his roster but at the end of the day there was no market in the first place. Def a well everyone else is doing it so should I kind of thing. It goes back to bad evaluations .. he kicked Charlie Daniels
Off the team couple years ago (uncoachable) guess where Charlie ends up.. power 5 Minnesota. Bad evaluation by Kyle Keller .. the list goes on and on.
No-look
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Potential recruits read this and they could get the wrong ideas.
FBK_Lumberjack
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No-look said:

Potential recruits read this and they could get the wrong ideas.
I'm curious as to what you think might be the "wrong ideas"?

Jackincharge
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They might get the idea that we have a men's basketball coaching problem ?
No-look
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Jackincharge said:

They might get the idea that we have a men's basketball coaching problem ?
so they would potentially pass?
Jackincharge
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They already are look at the targets on Twitter they not signing with us .. it won't be this thread lol .. he has a reputation in the basketball world!
No-look
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Jackincharge said:

They already are look at the targets on Twitter they not signing with us .. it won't be this thread lol .. he has a reputation in the basketball world!
Looks like we may not field a team this year lol
Jackincharge
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Hard to be sure .. there will be dudes out there who will come .. hopefully they can come in and contribute. Deepest team we had last year for sure!
Jacks1989
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Just released Juco Recruiting Top 100. I wonder how many the Jacks are recruiting?

Lajae Jones is #7 on the list was offered by the Jacks.

https://www.jucorecruiting.com/2024-junior-college-basketball-top-100-player-rankings
No-look
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UTA just got a commitment from Raysean Seamster #38
Puddingman69
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AJ and Latrell were in the rec today. Might I say theirs a reason their division 1 athletes .
FBK_Lumberjack
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Jackincharge said:

They might get the idea that we have a men's basketball coaching problem ?
Good, that would be a correct assessment to draw from this discussion.
Ljacks&Longnecks
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Fair question. I would say the Jacks need to finish top 3 in conference and make the conference tourney final at least. After this last season disappointment, I feel he needs to come up big next season or start looking elsewhere.
He can't use the portal as an excuse because everyone has that problem. Also we should have a new AD by then and I would think that the new AD will be taking a hard look at all staff and will want to put in some people of his own choosing.
Another barely .500 season won't cut it again. But hard to see SFA buying him out if it came to his last season.
That's the least I would want to see next year.
 
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