CottonValleyJack said:

---

RedRiverLa said:

---

CottonValleyJack said:

---

MasterAxe said:

---

INiedrauer said:

---

Those of you saying Keller is a mediocre coach for this....come on. I have a hard time taking that seriously enough to express disagreement.

---

You have any facts to the contrary? If he's not mediocre, what is he? Good...maybe. Maybe.

Certainly isn't great.

13/18 wins are non D1 or sub-.500 teams.

---

If this is "great", is there a word grandiose enough in the English language for his predecessor?

---

Yes, our language has several words greater than great: superior, exceptional, outstanding, superb, Kasper-recruit-blessed. Funny how Illinois isn't assigning these terms to Brad, not even great. In fact, the complaints in here about Keller are the same ones and even worse Underwood is getting this year, so he must be worse than Keller. Or maybe fans just overreact?

---

You're upping the Keller apologist denial stakes. Lets compare their body of work at SFA. Underwood won us two tournament games, three conference titles (in three years). Best run in our history. Keller takes beatdowns of biblical proportions by middle tier SLC schools and yells about refs to his wife mid game.

---

Not at all, I'm saying 'great' doesn't give him God-like status like you want to assume up "apologists" are stating. And Brad's record was amazing and is untouchable - but even in that moment, you had to be realistic that even John Wooden coming in to coach SFA couldn't keep it at that level (let's assume for that analogy he's still alive) - and all great coaches, a.k.a Brad, that you keep bringing up (and who is an exceptional coach), is in his second year of getting pounded on the court. A part of Brad's greatness was the benefit of a wealth of talent left by Casper (Walkup, Geffrard, Pinkney). Honestly, Brad did not leave Keller that wealth of talent - some very good players yes, but any on the level of those 3? And Keller's recruiting class is still very young to this level of ball. I'm not saying that I'm thrilled with the up and down of the team this year either, or the beat downd we are taking, it's embarassing and disappointing - but to throw the coach under the bus this early in his tenure, and to say this based on being 18-5 and 7-3, that's just a little too excessive to me. Anyway, thanks for the lively discussion. AxeEm!

SfaFan15 said:

---

I am a long time "reader" on this forum, but this is my first time to post, and probably not the best moment to post... I've tried to keep an open mind and broad perspective on Keller's coaching style and abilities, but in all honesty, he's not a great coach. I understand that there are some people on this forum that have to stay neutral regardless of success/unsuccess of this team, and I also understand that Keller has a great coaching pedigree. We all want to believe in him, but coaching is not his forte... Car sales.. maybe. The psychological inconsistency that this team plays with is most definitely due to coaching.

We should expect losses; I don't think anyone would disagree when we have games where we just are not the better team, but with the amount of talent this team has, a good coach would push this team to be as good in reality as they are on paper. The southland conference is not the Big 12 in the sense that anyone can beat anybody on any given day. There is a tremendous talent gap between SFA and the vast majority of the conference. I personally don't ever see Kyle Keller leading this team to an NCAA tournament appearance. If SFA chooses to sit on their hands as they've done in other sports, regarding tough coaching decisions, then I believe that the CIT will be the new status quo for SFA basketball. There's nothing wrong with that, but it would be a shame as I feel there is certainly potential for SFA to be a consistent tournament team... Maybe if Underwood doesn't make it at Illinois we can reel him back to Nacogdoches. Lol

---

Interesting take - car sales? Underwood understood he was blessed with incredible talent that was once in a lifetime and he rightly used that to move to a bigger conference - but he's not setting the world on fire because he needs several years to bring his style players in and have them grow in his system, - something most are not willing to afford Keller the opportunity to do. And beleive me, illinois is taking some a%^kickings, even with several "Mr. Basketballs" on their team. Underwood is not coming back, but if he did, he couldn't compete against himself and his previous talent - and most would then be saying he's just not what he once was, time to move on. Illinois is my second team and I've been following those boards, too. It's funny how striking similiar our board is to theirs. I could replace the name Keller with Underwood on your post and you would have the Illini conversation almost verbatim. On here I'm a "Keller apologist", on their board I'm an "Underwood apologist." Whatever. AxeEm!

CottonValleyJack said:

---

The amount of denial is sad. We have guys calling to launch investigations into the refs and defending curb stompings from middle tier SLC teams. Fellas, what's it going to take to question the "great" Kyle Keller? Why is he beyond reproach? Like I said, I think he's a great guy, mediocre coach.

No one hopes he shows my otherwise more than me. All of the progress we made on the national stage under Brad is slipping away every year Keller looses the SLC to a random Louisiana school.

---

I agree on the ref thing - that's just silly. No one is defending the stompings, this last one was extrememly embarasing - but it's not worthy of Keller all of a sudden being mediocre and uable to coach. If that was the stream of thought poeople were saying after the LSU and Missouri game, or even the ULM game, then I appreciate someone dedicated to that opinion, even if I disagree. But to those making their first appearance and jumping on the mediorcre bandwagon after an embarrassing loss, I just don't put much credibility in it.

RedRiverLa said:

---

CottonValleyJack said:

---

RedRiverLa said:

---

CottonValleyJack said:

---

MasterAxe said:

---

INiedrauer said:

---

Those of you saying Keller is a mediocre coach for this....come on. I have a hard time taking that seriously enough to express disagreement.

---

You have any facts to the contrary? If he's not mediocre, what is he? Good...maybe. Maybe.

Certainly isn't great.

13/18 wins are non D1 or sub-.500 teams.

---

If this is "great", is there a word grandiose enough in the English language for his predecessor?

---

Yes, our language has several words greater than great: superior, exceptional, outstanding, superb, Kasper-recruit-blessed. Funny how Illinois isn't assigning these terms to Brad, not even great. In fact, the complaints in here about Keller are the same ones and even worse Underwood is getting this year, so he must be worse than Keller. Or maybe fans just overreact?

---

You're upping the Keller apologist denial stakes. Lets compare their body of work at SFA. Underwood won us two tournament games, three conference titles (in three years). Best run in our history. Keller takes beatdowns of biblical proportions by middle tier SLC schools and yells about refs to his wife mid game.

---

Not at all, I'm saying 'great' doesn't give him God-like status like you want to assume up "apologists" are stating. And Brad's record was amazing and is untouchable - but even in that moment, you had to be realistic that even John Wooden coming in to coach SFA couldn't keep it at that level (let's assume for that analogy he's still alive) - and all great coaches, a.k.a Brad, that you keep bringing up (and who is an exceptional coach), is in his second year of getting pounded on the court. A part of Brad's greatness was the benefit of a wealth of talent left by Casper (Walkup, Geffrard, Pinkney). Honestly, Brad did not leave Keller that wealth of talent - some very good players yes, but any on the level of those 3? And Keller's recruiting class is still very young to this level of ball. I'm not saying that I'm thrilled with the up and down of the team this year either, or the beat downd we are taking, it's embarassing and disappointing - but to throw the coach under the bus this early in his tenure, and to say this based on being 18-5 and 7-3, that's just a little too excessive to me. Anyway, thanks for the lively discussion. AxeEm!

---

I hope he proves me wrong. I'd love to see another SLC championship banner hanging - that would shut up me and my ilk. Axe 'em.

Just read through this whole thread. I agree with both sides. Too early to call Keller a great coach and too early to call him a bad coach. It all about what happens in March. If we can somehow win conference and tournament then that is okay. But not making the tournament would be unacceptable. To be honest I stoped watching the game at halftime. We just looked sloppy. I have a feeling we will put some wins together and sh#t the bed on the last game of the season against sam. I have moved the bar for Keller lower. Just make the tournament. Minimum. If he can't do that then Idk.

I apprecaite the liveliness of this discussion on both sides. The passion is wonderful, and the opposing viewpoints are well-taken. IMHO, I just see this as a true Forum from a frustrated fan base, including myself. I say this having worked in the SF Giants baseball organization and expereinced real nastiness, beleive me, this site is cordial in disagreement compared to that. Besides, if this isn't the exact place to exercise frustration and engage in amped-up debates, then there is no proper place. I just know that at the end of the day, we will all be in WRJ raising the axes, win or lose. It's just basketball played by 18-22 year olds. And, since I'm an outsider (meaning from Louisiana), everyone better be in WRJ on the 10th helping me send the Demons to an early grave. I've managed to shut up my LSU friends for now, and I need to do the same for all these Demon children surrounding me. So join me SFA brothers (and sisters) and help me Axe the Demons. (and, McNeese - damn Cowboys).

CottonValleyJack said:

---

RedRiverLa said:

---

CottonValleyJack said:

---

RedRiverLa said:

---

CottonValleyJack said:

---

MasterAxe said:

---

INiedrauer said:

---

Those of you saying Keller is a mediocre coach for this....come on. I have a hard time taking that seriously enough to express disagreement.

---

You have any facts to the contrary? If he's not mediocre, what is he? Good...maybe. Maybe.

Certainly isn't great.

13/18 wins are non D1 or sub-.500 teams.

---

If this is "great", is there a word grandiose enough in the English language for his predecessor?

---

Yes, our language has several words greater than great: superior, exceptional, outstanding, superb, Kasper-recruit-blessed. Funny how Illinois isn't assigning these terms to Brad, not even great. In fact, the complaints in here about Keller are the same ones and even worse Underwood is getting this year, so he must be worse than Keller. Or maybe fans just overreact?

---

You're upping the Keller apologist denial stakes. Lets compare their body of work at SFA. Underwood won us two tournament games, three conference titles (in three years). Best run in our history. Keller takes beatdowns of biblical proportions by middle tier SLC schools and yells about refs to his wife mid game.

---

Not at all, I'm saying 'great' doesn't give him God-like status like you want to assume up "apologists" are stating. And Brad's record was amazing and is untouchable - but even in that moment, you had to be realistic that even John Wooden coming in to coach SFA couldn't keep it at that level (let's assume for that analogy he's still alive) - and all great coaches, a.k.a Brad, that you keep bringing up (and who is an exceptional coach), is in his second year of getting pounded on the court. A part of Brad's greatness was the benefit of a wealth of talent left by Casper (Walkup, Geffrard, Pinkney). Honestly, Brad did not leave Keller that wealth of talent - some very good players yes, but any on the level of those 3? And Keller's recruiting class is still very young to this level of ball. I'm not saying that I'm thrilled with the up and down of the team this year either, or the beat downd we are taking, it's embarassing and disappointing - but to throw the coach under the bus this early in his tenure, and to say this based on being 18-5 and 7-3, that's just a little too excessive to me. Anyway, thanks for the lively discussion. AxeEm!

---

I hope he proves me wrong. I'd love to see another SLC championship banner hanging - that would shut up me and my ilk. Axe 'em

---

Never shut up! - You may be right and I could be completely wrong. You have very valid points, and I appreciate and enjoy the back and forth - I just have a different take. I think the reality is probably somewhere in the middle of our opposing thoughts - I do agree that if it continues this way over the next couple of years, then there won't have been the growth I was counting on, and you nailed it early on. What he yelled at his wife was disappointing, no way I would condone that, I understand his frustration, but the University shouldn't be represented that way in a public place, home or away, even if there is valid friction between the two. How we finish the season may start to prove our different takes one way or the other. And if I'm wrong, the next meal in WRJ of a hot dog and unsalted popcorn, and non-alchohol drink is on me. And from the looks of it, when I am proven wrong, there will be a huge line I have to feed! AxeEm! Plus, I spelled Kasper wrong, so that pretty much invalidates my take on all of this.

No-look said:

---

Reel off some wins and this game becomes a faint memory. Keep eyes on the road ahead and don't look in the rear view mirror.

---

Good advice. I've used my rearview and 2 side mirrors for the 3 losses - so onward we go.

I'm appalled at some of the post to fire coach at this time. Unbelievable how everyone is in a panic mode over a basketball game. Rudeness is not the place for this forum. Teams win and lose. Look at duke and Kentucky this season. Everyone needs to chill out. Nobody died!!! Everyone has bad days and off days. Every profession has them and firing is not the direct answer. Let's support and get behind this team and go by the office and ask how and what we can do to help. I'm invested. We need to be patient. Brad is dealing with the same issues at Illinois. We have to move on. Let's all chill and move on. Don't dwell on this. Be nice.

Sweet16bound said:

---

I'm appalled at some of the post to fire coach at this time. Unbelievable how everyone is in a panic mode over a basketball game. Rudeness is not the place for this forum. Teams win and lose. Look at duke and Kentucky this season. Everyone needs to chill out. Nobody died!!! Everyone has bad days and off days. Every profession has them and firing is not the direct answer. Let's support and get behind this team and go by the office and ask how and what we can do to help. I'm invested. We need to be patient. Brad is dealing with the same issues at Illinois. We have to move on. Let's all chill and move on. Don't dwell on this. Be nice.

---

Beautifully stated, from a fellow die-hard Jacks fan!! (And keep contributing to the forums.)

Sweet16bound said:

---

I'm appalled at some of the post to fire coach at this time. Unbelievable how everyone is in a panic mode over a basketball game. Rudeness is not the place for this forum. Teams win and lose. Look at duke and Kentucky this season. Everyone needs to chill out. Nobody died!!! Everyone has bad days and off days. Every profession has them and firing is not the direct answer. Let's support and get behind this team and go by the office and ask how and what we can do to help. I'm invested. We need to be patient. Brad is dealing with the same issues at Illinois. We have to move on. Let's all chill and move on. Don't dwell on this. Be nice.

---

Agreed. This loss was incredibly frustrating, but I think it's time to accept that this team just isn't quite there. Yet. But we've taken huge strides from where we were last season. If this team continues to grow at this rate next season we will be a terrifying team.

SFA_03 said:

---

Sweet16bound said:

---

I'm appalled at some of the post to fire coach at this time. Unbelievable how everyone is in a panic mode over a basketball game. Rudeness is not the place for this forum. Teams win and lose. Look at duke and Kentucky this season. Everyone needs to chill out. Nobody died!!! Everyone has bad days and off days. Every profession has them and firing is not the direct answer. Let's support and get behind this team and go by the office and ask how and what we can do to help. I'm invested. We need to be patient. Brad is dealing with the same issues at Illinois. We have to move on. Let's all chill and move on. Don't dwell on this. Be nice.

---

Agreed. This loss was incredibly frustrating, but I think it's time to accept that this team just isn't quite there. Yet. But we've taken huge strides from where we were last season. If this team continues to grow at this rate next season we will be a terrifying team.

---

I will admit, I was as negative as anyone. However, I don't think people are calling for him to be fired, in my case, I want us to slow down with the "he is a great coach," narrative. That is an assertion that is impossible to prove.

He is a fantastic human being, that I will 100% agree with. His ability as a coach, in my opinion, is not nearly as clear.

People say we have improved greatly...again, I'm not sold as to why. Because we beat LSU? Because we almost beat Mizzou?

I still, often times, see a team that plays sloppy. Plays inconsistent and, especially on the road in conference, lots of times looks totally lost on what it is our team identity is. We are 20+ games in...it's time to figure this out.

Yes, we are improved in the area of "we will have more wins than last year," but some things we are not improved at, especially things that we all believe we should be more improved at.

Case in point: 345th out of 351 team in turnovers per game. Not improvement.
342nd out of 351 in fouls. Does not seem like improvement.
299th out of 351 in 3-point percentage. Gross.

Yes, I am cherry picking some certain stats to make my point, however, these are things that were an issue last year...things not improved on this year.

Certain areas, we are improved. Other areas, not close to improved.

Our record will indicate that we are an improved team. Again, my opinion, we are not nearly as improved as I think some believe we are. The Lamar game certainly does not help the "We are better than last year," narrative.

This will all be a moot point and make me look stupid when we win out (cause our highest level of play indicates we can do that) and I will gladly call Kyle Keller every great thing I can think of.

But, 4 more road games + SLC tourney will say alot about our direction.

Appreciate the banter.

#Axe'em

I think SFAFAN15 makes valid points. The things that makes this forum different than any other, is the moderators comment and reply all the time to defend the head coach. I get it, its your source for "exclusive content" but it doesn't mean you have to like him. I honestly feel there is a bias towards him. Look at texags, they'll rip any coach, it doesn't matter. Moderators, if rules are being broken, thats when you speak up, not to defend a certain topic. If there is an opionion that rivals the moderators, they'll kind of say you're wrong. What has Keller done that makes him a great coach? Before this game I predicted SFA would lose 1 maybe 2 more games before the season is over, looks like the prediction is playing its self out.

I think most people here support free discussion on all sporting points. (Personal jabs can take it too far). I also am a sponsor at other forums where the staff/mods are involved in the discussion, and personally have always appreciated it. I believe this forum has been an open place to present any viewpoint without personally being belittled even if one's position gets taken to task. I hope it stays a place of lively debate. I know of only one thread ever being heavily moderated, and that was due to personal remarks. Other forums I've seen have threads shut down all the time. But here, as mostly SFA fans, we can be civil.

I don't think ripping coaches shows a lack of bias nor do I think forum content has a journalistic integrity of non-bias to attain to. If more people like and speak up for Keller now, then maybe it shows some popular (if only of forumites) consensus. However, the naysayers have been quite vocal lately too, so I think everyone has support on what they feel. Honestly, if Isaac likes the coaches that he spends time with, good by me. I'm glad there are friendly coaches, and I'm thankful for the content that's not just straight from the SID.

Please keep posting. There's room for us all.

I'm actually kind of surprised to see that TexAgs has that rule. Fire "Insert Coach Here" posts are the reason I go to TexAgs, those posters are the most apocalyptic bunch I've ever seen. Perhaps they just delete the posts, but with the volume of posters it might be hard to find them as soon as they go up.

I've always wanted to buy TexAgs though & use it to slowly feed the Ags greatest conspiracy theories. That's a dream of mine.

TallTexan said:

---

I'm actually kind of surprised to see that TexAgs has that rule. Fire "Insert Coach Here" posts are the reason I go to TexAgs, those posters are the most apocalyptic bunch I've ever seen. Perhaps they just delete the posts, but with the volume of posters it might be hard to find them as soon as they go up.

I've always wanted to buy TexAgs though & use it to slowly feed the Ags greatest conspiracy theories. That's a dream of mine.

---

I am with you on this one, but I grew up in a Burnt Orange house.

Bonus points for using "apocalyptic" in a sentence.

SFAJack_76 said:

---

I am with you on this one, but I grew up in a Burnt Orange house.

Bonus points for using "apocalyptic" in a sentence.

---

I did too and got a grad degree from there, which is why I want to take over their forum, in a slow but sneaky manor.