I want Coach to stay also. I like how he coaches and the kids he brings in. Just want to solve the injury issue. Just crazy how many we had this year.
SFA / Utah Valley
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Last: 1 yr ago by SFA Jack Fanatic
MasterAxe said:BigJack85 said:nacluth said:
I think you're right. I think Keller has had success and will have more. Carthel on the other hand is still looking for success. I'll grant that football is a bigger transformation project than a basketball squad. But we're still waiting on his results.
I've been through a few SFA coaching changes. Keller is a winner. I hope we stick with him. Seems like a colossal gamble , to pitch out a coach that has almost 70% winning percentage over a sh**** loss to UVU, when we had 2-3 of our top players out or limited.
He's certainly gonna get next year, but he's gonna need a good year with some legitimate post-season success.
Cause right now he's a coach with a lot of wins but nothing really to show for it, from a post-season perspective.
Keller postseason:
1-2
3-1 (NCAA)
Missed SLC Tourney (yikes)
Covid, No Tourney
Not Eligible
0-2
TBD
So, he's 4-6 in the postseason in 5 eligible seasons
Three of those wins in one year.
Yes, he wins a lot of games, and that's awesome.
But the facts don't lie…post-season has been a struggle.
MasterAxe said:MasterAxe said:BigJack85 said:nacluth said:
I think you're right. I think Keller has had success and will have more. Carthel on the other hand is still looking for success. I'll grant that football is a bigger transformation project than a basketball squad. But we're still waiting on his results.
I've been through a few SFA coaching changes. Keller is a winner. I hope we stick with him. Seems like a colossal gamble , to pitch out a coach that has almost 70% winning percentage over a sh**** loss to UVU, when we had 2-3 of our top players out or limited.
He's certainly gonna get next year, but he's gonna need a good year with some legitimate post-season success.
Cause right now he's a coach with a lot of wins but nothing really to show for it, from a post-season perspective.
Keller postseason:
1-2
3-1 (NCAA)
Missed SLC Tourney (yikes)
Covid, No Tourney
Not Eligible
0-2
TBD
So, he's 4-6 in the postseason in 5 eligible seasons
Three of those wins in one year.
Yes, he wins a lot of games, and that's awesome.
But the facts don't lie…post-season has been a struggle.
No disagreement here. Facts are Facts. That being said , he's gotten us places we didn't think we'd go to. And, he has upside. I'm with Keller. Hope they keep him and he stays a long time. We (SFA) will benefit. Immensely
Axe 'Em Jacks - Class of 85'
I'm still strongly in the Keller camp...that said I agree with a couple of 76's points. Keller is the head coach so gets all the responsibility win or lose and being in control of the program. That applies to any head coach.
Very much agree that recruiting this year must be a Home Run and it Must include Bigs and help in the paint. Anything less would have to be viewed as a failure. Again Keller would have to own it.
Nacluth's point about assistants is true. I know little about them and have heard nothing one way or another about them and their performance. We often heard about what Cox and Mason were doing. Are they the right pieces for this puzzle?
Players leave programs all the time for a variety of reasons...this is not new and won't change. Players leave for personal reasons/choices good or bad, that's on them. As for players that break rules or laws, then they absolutely need to be removed from team. Keller is responsible for the team but can't always control what a 19 or 20 year old thinks or feels or does. We are not hearing anything about a bad locker room attitude or seeing a mass exodus so that doesn't appear to be an issue.
We have seen comments over Keller's tenure that he practices the guys very hard. I have nothing to compare it to what other teams/coaches do. Is this what leads to our number of injuries?
We did just move on to a tougher conference so probably need a little different type of recruits to stay near the top. Pretty sure Keller knows this and will act accordingly. Actually will have to do so.
So from my very outside view--Still strong on Keller but believe that this recruiting year is very crucial for the success of the program and he must produce some needed help. Truly, failure is not an option here.
Very much agree that recruiting this year must be a Home Run and it Must include Bigs and help in the paint. Anything less would have to be viewed as a failure. Again Keller would have to own it.
Nacluth's point about assistants is true. I know little about them and have heard nothing one way or another about them and their performance. We often heard about what Cox and Mason were doing. Are they the right pieces for this puzzle?
Players leave programs all the time for a variety of reasons...this is not new and won't change. Players leave for personal reasons/choices good or bad, that's on them. As for players that break rules or laws, then they absolutely need to be removed from team. Keller is responsible for the team but can't always control what a 19 or 20 year old thinks or feels or does. We are not hearing anything about a bad locker room attitude or seeing a mass exodus so that doesn't appear to be an issue.
We have seen comments over Keller's tenure that he practices the guys very hard. I have nothing to compare it to what other teams/coaches do. Is this what leads to our number of injuries?
We did just move on to a tougher conference so probably need a little different type of recruits to stay near the top. Pretty sure Keller knows this and will act accordingly. Actually will have to do so.
So from my very outside view--Still strong on Keller but believe that this recruiting year is very crucial for the success of the program and he must produce some needed help. Truly, failure is not an option here.
Not MBB related but Completely agree with Bigjack about football Coach John Pearce. Excellent coach that should have been kept on at that time.
BigJack85 said:MasterAxe said:MasterAxe said:BigJack85 said:nacluth said:
I think you're right. I think Keller has had success and will have more. Carthel on the other hand is still looking for success. I'll grant that football is a bigger transformation project than a basketball squad. But we're still waiting on his results.
I've been through a few SFA coaching changes. Keller is a winner. I hope we stick with him. Seems like a colossal gamble , to pitch out a coach that has almost 70% winning percentage over a sh**** loss to UVU, when we had 2-3 of our top players out or limited.
He's certainly gonna get next year, but he's gonna need a good year with some legitimate post-season success.
Cause right now he's a coach with a lot of wins but nothing really to show for it, from a post-season perspective.
Keller postseason:
1-2
3-1 (NCAA)
Missed SLC Tourney (yikes)
Covid, No Tourney
Not Eligible
0-2
TBD
So, he's 4-6 in the postseason in 5 eligible seasons
Three of those wins in one year.
Yes, he wins a lot of games, and that's awesome.
But the facts don't lie…post-season has been a struggle.
No disagreement here. Facts are Facts. That being said , he's gotten us places we didn't think we'd go to. And, he has upside. I'm with Keller. Hope they keep him and he stays a long time. We (SFA) will benefit. Immensely
I hope you're right, cause I think we should go to the NCAA every year, and we are not currently close to that goal.
MasterAxe said:BigJack85 said:MasterAxe said:MasterAxe said:BigJack85 said:nacluth said:
I think you're right. I think Keller has had success and will have more. Carthel on the other hand is still looking for success. I'll grant that football is a bigger transformation project than a basketball squad. But we're still waiting on his results.
I've been through a few SFA coaching changes. Keller is a winner. I hope we stick with him. Seems like a colossal gamble , to pitch out a coach that has almost 70% winning percentage over a sh**** loss to UVU, when we had 2-3 of our top players out or limited.
He's certainly gonna get next year, but he's gonna need a good year with some legitimate post-season success.
Cause right now he's a coach with a lot of wins but nothing really to show for it, from a post-season perspective.
Keller postseason:
1-2
3-1 (NCAA)
Missed SLC Tourney (yikes)
Covid, No Tourney
Not Eligible
0-2
TBD
So, he's 4-6 in the postseason in 5 eligible seasons
Three of those wins in one year.
Yes, he wins a lot of games, and that's awesome.
But the facts don't lie…post-season has been a struggle.
No disagreement here. Facts are Facts. That being said , he's gotten us places we didn't think we'd go to. And, he has upside. I'm with Keller. Hope they keep him and he stays a long time. We (SFA) will benefit. Immensely
I hope you're right, cause I think we should go to the NCAA every year, and we are not currently close to that goal.
Going to the tournament EVERY YEAR is unrealistic when you have schools like GCU that have 2X the budget. ACU Tarleton UVU SUU etc are no Southland D1 wannabes. That's a huge difference in caliber of competition. 1-2 every 4-5 years. Maybe more realistic.
Take a look at Keller's overall record. From 2016 - today. The man's got a 70% winning record. Consistently competitive. Only had one klunker (18-19). Almost always in the running for a title. We've got the right guy.
Axe 'Em Jacks - Class of 85'
Is there anything coming from this or is it done?
Here is the handshake line last night in Orem. Can’t tell but maybe Tim Ceaser said something to Robbie Armbrester? Perhaps it all stemmed from the two going at it in the first half, too. pic.twitter.com/BBX4L2qYHA
— WACHoopsDigest (@WACHoopsDigest) March 4, 2023
Master, That's a nice goal there but quite unrealistic. Until we have the power and resources of a Kansas or Duke---which will be never--just not going to happen for a regular East Texas mid major. If that is our goal then we should have stayed SLC. Don't get me wrong , I'm all for it....but reality can be a tough opponent.
Well Ceaser may have said something but this is where Armbrester has to keep his cool. If the WAC chooses to act, the shove is obvious while anything said is hearsay. If WAC takes any action like a 1 game suspension on Armbrester, not much one could say in his defense based solely on video.
Of interest to me is the guy from the UVU bench that came running to get into the fray and it's Keller that pushed him away with his shoulder and then you see the UVU head coach pushing him away as well. Don't know who he is but if anything ruled against us I would insist on some penalty on that guy
Of interest to me is the guy from the UVU bench that came running to get into the fray and it's Keller that pushed him away with his shoulder and then you see the UVU head coach pushing him away as well. Don't know who he is but if anything ruled against us I would insist on some penalty on that guy
Most likely just done. Heard that no other scuffles took place.
2016-17: 18-15; 12-6 CIT FIRST ROUND
2017-18: 28-7; 14-4 SLC TOURNAMENT CHAMPS; NCAA TOURNAMENT (FIRST ROUND)
2018-19: 14-16; 7-11
2019-20: 28-3; 19-1 SLC CHAMPIONS
2020-21: 16-5; 12-3
2021-22: 22-9; 14-4 WAC CHAMPIONS; CBI FIRST ROUND
2022-23: 19-12; 11-7
2017-18: 28-7; 14-4 SLC TOURNAMENT CHAMPS; NCAA TOURNAMENT (FIRST ROUND)
2018-19: 14-16; 7-11
2019-20: 28-3; 19-1 SLC CHAMPIONS
2020-21: 16-5; 12-3
2021-22: 22-9; 14-4 WAC CHAMPIONS; CBI FIRST ROUND
2022-23: 19-12; 11-7
Keller is a good coach. But without post season success, he will start to look like Hooten, who's also a good coach but can't win big.
A regular NCAA team is a harder path in the WAC, it'd probably take a Sweet 16 to pull it off and get enough attention to get the talent.
That said, I think the Duke beating team was going to be that team. Covid derailed SFA's best team in a generation.
Hopefully we can get back there soon. We've got the guards imo, but we need to add bigs who are top caliber players.
A regular NCAA team is a harder path in the WAC, it'd probably take a Sweet 16 to pull it off and get enough attention to get the talent.
That said, I think the Duke beating team was going to be that team. Covid derailed SFA's best team in a generation.
Hopefully we can get back there soon. We've got the guards imo, but we need to add bigs who are top caliber players.
nacluth said:
44 point loss is our worst D1 conference loss ever. Our other 40 point loss was in a 2-25 season right after we came to the Southland.
Just something you don't expect with a program like ours in a regular season conference game. Even with injuries
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It's pretty clear, or at least it should be by now, that Keller isn't going to put up with guys that don't follow his rules or keep guys that don't want to be there and put in the work. He has a tough, and demanding system that isn't always going to work for some kids...no matter how good they are.
I'm not going to make excuses for him or anyone, but this season got off on the wrong foot before it even began. Montavious Murphy was going to be a starter from Day 1. Having him leave just weeks before practice started immediately changes things. The more and more guys you start losing to injury, the more you have to scrap your plans and make adjustments.
I think Keller deserves a lot of credit for how well we've done considering everything. Half of the team has never been 100% through the year, the other half are in different roles than they expected to be in...and we've still got a chance to get to 20 wins.
Of course 19-12 is disappointing for everyone, especially for the staff and the guys. But you should be able to see the effort and desire to win from everyone involved. I think that's the frustration you saw this past Friday night.
I'm not going to make excuses for him or anyone, but this season got off on the wrong foot before it even began. Montavious Murphy was going to be a starter from Day 1. Having him leave just weeks before practice started immediately changes things. The more and more guys you start losing to injury, the more you have to scrap your plans and make adjustments.
I think Keller deserves a lot of credit for how well we've done considering everything. Half of the team has never been 100% through the year, the other half are in different roles than they expected to be in...and we've still got a chance to get to 20 wins.
Of course 19-12 is disappointing for everyone, especially for the staff and the guys. But you should be able to see the effort and desire to win from everyone involved. I think that's the frustration you saw this past Friday night.
Agree with PurpleOut.. The injuries have been this team's main opponent throughout the season. The secondary effect is many of them have played far too many minutes to pick up the slack. This leads to flat performances from very talented players. That said is it just a fluke year or does the amount of high intensity practices minutes need to be analyzed confirming it there is a point of dimensioning return. As you cannot rotate the player in the games like you would like, do you need to reduce some of the high energy practice. I have faith these are intelligent coaches and trainer running this group. They are already working issues around player strength and conditioning.
On the subject of post season play. The covid year most likely killed Keller's most recent chance to get a team past the first round of the NCAA tournament.
On the subject of post season play. The covid year most likely killed Keller's most recent chance to get a team past the first round of the NCAA tournament.
Great points, Texasheli.
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