SFA / Abilene Christian

21,270 Views | 179 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by Pilotgirl
TallTexan
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That's a good point on Cam.

Normally Gavin fills that role but it'd be nice if another guard could create more regularly.
SFA Jack Fanatic
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MasterAxe said:

BTW, for everyone who can do it better:

They are taking applications.

https://taso.org/

I was an official for 23 years. Trained a few dozen new officials during that time. That was some bad officiating tonight.
MasterAxe
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PurpleOut said:

MasterAxe said:

BigJack85 said:

TallTexan said:

MasterAxe said:

TallTexan said:

Vendetta or incompetence they still swung the game.

If that's your idea of a fairly called game, the Southland is always hiring.
Then our coaches and players did a poor job adjusting.

Look, I get it...you want to blame the refs. That's your right to do, I respect that.

I choose to say, "We played like ****, especially in the 2nd half of the 2nd half and we deserved to lose."



Who do you suggest that we should have put in to defend the paint who wasn't at risk of fouling out for... Checks notes... rebounding?

This is your schtick every time. Did SFA play our best game? No. But that's not mutually exclusive from a horse crap called game putting us in an unfair hole.

When I watch two of the best teams in the league play, one of them shouldn't have to fight with a hand tied behind their back.




Whoa there cowboys.... chill.
Civilized convo. I respect where people come from, it is just not my way of thinking.

I'll always defend the refs, they got the hardest jobs in sports.

Sure, they miss calls, happens all the time.

But we are constantly blaming them and it just feels like we're afraid to say "Hey, we got our asses kicked, it's ok, let's get back to work to make sure we're not in a position where some bad calls hurt us."

If we play as good as I think we can play (and did against NWST) then we should not be in a spot that refs impact the game.

It happens. We lost. Let's go get the next one.




You say all of this...basically every game, without understanding that nobody is "blaming" the refs. I still haven't seen one person say we lost because the refs screwed is.

If you (and I mean anyone) can't understand how officiating can swing a game, not because they did it on purpose, but because on how they call a game...then I don't care what level of basketball you officiated or how much you want to defend an official you don't know. You put ANY TEAMS best players in foul trouble, and they are at a disadvantage.

One of my good friends, that is an NCAA official, texted me earlier with only "lol."

Oh ACU also shot 25% from 3.

Everyone here has said how bad we played and how bad our turnovers were. Not sure why you think you constantly need to try to be the person to call everyone out for "blaming officials." I've rarely seen a team lose by 20 on the road while out shooting the home team. The same away team that played less outside (we took 8 threes to their 24) and have a foul discrepancy in the paint like that. Kohl and Pleasant for ACU had three fouls...COMBINED.

But yes....everyone 100% thinks the refs did us in.
Look, we are not going to agree. I say it every game because every game we lose, oddly, there are people just constantly railing on the refs.

If that's how you want to be, that's ok. That's not me.
MasterAxe
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SFA Jack Fanatic said:

MasterAxe said:

BTW, for everyone who can do it better:

They are taking applications.

https://taso.org/

I was an official for 23 years. That was some bad officiating tonight.
And I appreciate you for that. Even the best have bad nights.

I just don't love when we constantly think there is some sort of conspiracy against us.

We played like poo the 2nd half of the 2nd half.
PurpleOut
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MasterAxe said:

PurpleOut said:

MasterAxe said:

BigJack85 said:

TallTexan said:

MasterAxe said:

TallTexan said:

Vendetta or incompetence they still swung the game.

If that's your idea of a fairly called game, the Southland is always hiring.
Then our coaches and players did a poor job adjusting.

Look, I get it...you want to blame the refs. That's your right to do, I respect that.

I choose to say, "We played like ****, especially in the 2nd half of the 2nd half and we deserved to lose."



Who do you suggest that we should have put in to defend the paint who wasn't at risk of fouling out for... Checks notes... rebounding?

This is your schtick every time. Did SFA play our best game? No. But that's not mutually exclusive from a horse crap called game putting us in an unfair hole.

When I watch two of the best teams in the league play, one of them shouldn't have to fight with a hand tied behind their back.




Whoa there cowboys.... chill.
Civilized convo. I respect where people come from, it is just not my way of thinking.

I'll always defend the refs, they got the hardest jobs in sports.

Sure, they miss calls, happens all the time.

But we are constantly blaming them and it just feels like we're afraid to say "Hey, we got our asses kicked, it's ok, let's get back to work to make sure we're not in a position where some bad calls hurt us."

If we play as good as I think we can play (and did against NWST) then we should not be in a spot that refs impact the game.

It happens. We lost. Let's go get the next one.




You say all of this...basically every game, without understanding that nobody is "blaming" the refs. I still haven't seen one person say we lost because the refs screwed is.

If you (and I mean anyone) can't understand how officiating can swing a game, not because they did it on purpose, but because on how they call a game...then I don't care what level of basketball you officiated or how much you want to defend an official you don't know. You put ANY TEAMS best players in foul trouble, and they are at a disadvantage.

One of my good friends, that is an NCAA official, texted me earlier with only "lol."

Oh ACU also shot 25% from 3.

Everyone here has said how bad we played and how bad our turnovers were. Not sure why you think you constantly need to try to be the person to call everyone out for "blaming officials." I've rarely seen a team lose by 20 on the road while out shooting the home team. The same away team that played less outside (we took 8 threes to their 24) and have a foul discrepancy in the paint like that. Kohl and Pleasant for ACU had three fouls...COMBINED.

But yes....everyone 100% thinks the refs did us in.
Look, we are not going to agree. I say it every game because every game we lose, oddly, there are people just constantly railing on the refs.

If that's how you want to be, that's ok. That's not me.


There is 0 problem with any human being calling out bad officiating in any game, of any sport.
MasterAxe
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PurpleOut said:

MasterAxe said:

PurpleOut said:

MasterAxe said:

BigJack85 said:

TallTexan said:

MasterAxe said:

TallTexan said:

Vendetta or incompetence they still swung the game.

If that's your idea of a fairly called game, the Southland is always hiring.
Then our coaches and players did a poor job adjusting.

Look, I get it...you want to blame the refs. That's your right to do, I respect that.

I choose to say, "We played like ****, especially in the 2nd half of the 2nd half and we deserved to lose."



Who do you suggest that we should have put in to defend the paint who wasn't at risk of fouling out for... Checks notes... rebounding?

This is your schtick every time. Did SFA play our best game? No. But that's not mutually exclusive from a horse crap called game putting us in an unfair hole.

When I watch two of the best teams in the league play, one of them shouldn't have to fight with a hand tied behind their back.




Whoa there cowboys.... chill.
Civilized convo. I respect where people come from, it is just not my way of thinking.

I'll always defend the refs, they got the hardest jobs in sports.

Sure, they miss calls, happens all the time.

But we are constantly blaming them and it just feels like we're afraid to say "Hey, we got our asses kicked, it's ok, let's get back to work to make sure we're not in a position where some bad calls hurt us."

If we play as good as I think we can play (and did against NWST) then we should not be in a spot that refs impact the game.

It happens. We lost. Let's go get the next one.




You say all of this...basically every game, without understanding that nobody is "blaming" the refs. I still haven't seen one person say we lost because the refs screwed is.

If you (and I mean anyone) can't understand how officiating can swing a game, not because they did it on purpose, but because on how they call a game...then I don't care what level of basketball you officiated or how much you want to defend an official you don't know. You put ANY TEAMS best players in foul trouble, and they are at a disadvantage.

One of my good friends, that is an NCAA official, texted me earlier with only "lol."

Oh ACU also shot 25% from 3.

Everyone here has said how bad we played and how bad our turnovers were. Not sure why you think you constantly need to try to be the person to call everyone out for "blaming officials." I've rarely seen a team lose by 20 on the road while out shooting the home team. The same away team that played less outside (we took 8 threes to their 24) and have a foul discrepancy in the paint like that. Kohl and Pleasant for ACU had three fouls...COMBINED.

But yes....everyone 100% thinks the refs did us in.
Look, we are not going to agree. I say it every game because every game we lose, oddly, there are people just constantly railing on the refs.

If that's how you want to be, that's ok. That's not me.


There is 0 problem with any human being calling out bad officiating in any game, of any sport.

Never said there was. But, why do we have 5x the bad officiating posts when we lose? It just seems to me to be the easy excuse. We made 2 three pointers to their 6 and missed 11 FT.

Those are facts. That's 23 missing points. We lost by 20.

We also outshot them by 1.3%, not exactly burning up the nets.

Equal their three point shooting and make some FT's, not even all of them, and this game is close to the end.



HJC69
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"Sure, they miss calls. Happens all the time" is exactly correct. ESPECIALLY for this particuar crew. Have watched them in person many times. Yes we were outplayed for a reason. We weren't allowed to play. We have no choice but to move on, Axem Jacks!
PurpleOut
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Staff
MasterAxe said:

PurpleOut said:

MasterAxe said:

PurpleOut said:

MasterAxe said:

BigJack85 said:

TallTexan said:

MasterAxe said:

TallTexan said:

Vendetta or incompetence they still swung the game.

If that's your idea of a fairly called game, the Southland is always hiring.
Then our coaches and players did a poor job adjusting.

Look, I get it...you want to blame the refs. That's your right to do, I respect that.

I choose to say, "We played like ****, especially in the 2nd half of the 2nd half and we deserved to lose."



Who do you suggest that we should have put in to defend the paint who wasn't at risk of fouling out for... Checks notes... rebounding?

This is your schtick every time. Did SFA play our best game? No. But that's not mutually exclusive from a horse crap called game putting us in an unfair hole.

When I watch two of the best teams in the league play, one of them shouldn't have to fight with a hand tied behind their back.




Whoa there cowboys.... chill.
Civilized convo. I respect where people come from, it is just not my way of thinking.

I'll always defend the refs, they got the hardest jobs in sports.

Sure, they miss calls, happens all the time.

But we are constantly blaming them and it just feels like we're afraid to say "Hey, we got our asses kicked, it's ok, let's get back to work to make sure we're not in a position where some bad calls hurt us."

If we play as good as I think we can play (and did against NWST) then we should not be in a spot that refs impact the game.

It happens. We lost. Let's go get the next one.




You say all of this...basically every game, without understanding that nobody is "blaming" the refs. I still haven't seen one person say we lost because the refs screwed is.

If you (and I mean anyone) can't understand how officiating can swing a game, not because they did it on purpose, but because on how they call a game...then I don't care what level of basketball you officiated or how much you want to defend an official you don't know. You put ANY TEAMS best players in foul trouble, and they are at a disadvantage.

One of my good friends, that is an NCAA official, texted me earlier with only "lol."

Oh ACU also shot 25% from 3.

Everyone here has said how bad we played and how bad our turnovers were. Not sure why you think you constantly need to try to be the person to call everyone out for "blaming officials." I've rarely seen a team lose by 20 on the road while out shooting the home team. The same away team that played less outside (we took 8 threes to their 24) and have a foul discrepancy in the paint like that. Kohl and Pleasant for ACU had three fouls...COMBINED.

But yes....everyone 100% thinks the refs did us in.
Look, we are not going to agree. I say it every game because every game we lose, oddly, there are people just constantly railing on the refs.

If that's how you want to be, that's ok. That's not me.


There is 0 problem with any human being calling out bad officiating in any game, of any sport.

Never said there was.



Sorry man, but that's exactly what you are saying.

You seem to need to respond to anyone that thinks there's a bad call in a game.
Sfa05
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Refs were awful. ACU is a better team. Turnovers! They need to learn to play together. To many! Learn to shoot and hit free throws.
They out rebounded and shot ACU. Take half the fouls away and they still lose double figures.
ACU out hustled these guys. I do not mind a loss, but not to effort. Terrible calls or not...effort.
Right now they are 3-4 in the 2nd worst conference in D1. Keller has to create something to keep these seniors next year. Top it off with guard play. David's offense is good. He's a liability with high pressure on ball defense and his own defense. Ware has a nice mid range game. Both are complimentary players as displayed last year.

MasterAxe
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Last post, then night night for the old man.

It's ok to disagree, we've somehow lost that in our world.

This board and I disagree about the role/blame officials should have.

It's ok. We had a fairly civilized discussion...although I was accused of living in an alternate reality.

(If that's the case, Gal Gadot and I are billionaires living on our own island somewhere. Alone. With a message from God to immediately start repopulating)

Back to this reality. We lost. It sucks. ACU was better.

Some of you believe they were better because of the refs. That's ok, it's your opinion, I respect it, even though I don't necessarily agree.

We need to look at what we can do better.

I think we played like dog**** for long stretches and left 20+ points on the floor from the difference in missed 3's (2 for us, 6 for them) and missing 11 FT's.

I appreciate y'all and the banter. I'm not trying to be contrarian, just simply believe what I believe.

You remember old MasterAxe? Like, from 2+ years ago...now that guy could not have a civilized convo.

I've chilled. It's one game.

Probably won't matter anyways since we want to push our punishment to this year .

On to Sam, we win that and we're right back in the saddle.

See ya!
MasterAxe
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PurpleOut said:

MasterAxe said:

PurpleOut said:

MasterAxe said:

PurpleOut said:

MasterAxe said:

BigJack85 said:

TallTexan said:

MasterAxe said:

TallTexan said:

Vendetta or incompetence they still swung the game.

If that's your idea of a fairly called game, the Southland is always hiring.
Then our coaches and players did a poor job adjusting.

Look, I get it...you want to blame the refs. That's your right to do, I respect that.

I choose to say, "We played like ****, especially in the 2nd half of the 2nd half and we deserved to lose."



Who do you suggest that we should have put in to defend the paint who wasn't at risk of fouling out for... Checks notes... rebounding?

This is your schtick every time. Did SFA play our best game? No. But that's not mutually exclusive from a horse crap called game putting us in an unfair hole.

When I watch two of the best teams in the league play, one of them shouldn't have to fight with a hand tied behind their back.




Whoa there cowboys.... chill.
Civilized convo. I respect where people come from, it is just not my way of thinking.

I'll always defend the refs, they got the hardest jobs in sports.

Sure, they miss calls, happens all the time.

But we are constantly blaming them and it just feels like we're afraid to say "Hey, we got our asses kicked, it's ok, let's get back to work to make sure we're not in a position where some bad calls hurt us."

If we play as good as I think we can play (and did against NWST) then we should not be in a spot that refs impact the game.

It happens. We lost. Let's go get the next one.




You say all of this...basically every game, without understanding that nobody is "blaming" the refs. I still haven't seen one person say we lost because the refs screwed is.

If you (and I mean anyone) can't understand how officiating can swing a game, not because they did it on purpose, but because on how they call a game...then I don't care what level of basketball you officiated or how much you want to defend an official you don't know. You put ANY TEAMS best players in foul trouble, and they are at a disadvantage.

One of my good friends, that is an NCAA official, texted me earlier with only "lol."

Oh ACU also shot 25% from 3.

Everyone here has said how bad we played and how bad our turnovers were. Not sure why you think you constantly need to try to be the person to call everyone out for "blaming officials." I've rarely seen a team lose by 20 on the road while out shooting the home team. The same away team that played less outside (we took 8 threes to their 24) and have a foul discrepancy in the paint like that. Kohl and Pleasant for ACU had three fouls...COMBINED.

But yes....everyone 100% thinks the refs did us in.
Look, we are not going to agree. I say it every game because every game we lose, oddly, there are people just constantly railing on the refs.

If that's how you want to be, that's ok. That's not me.


There is 0 problem with any human being calling out bad officiating in any game, of any sport.

Never said there was.



Sorry man, but that's exactly what you are saying.

You seem to need to respond to anyone that thinks there's a bad call in a game.

Technically, not true. I went back and counted, there were at least 24 posts about officials during the course of the game. (I was conservative in counting cause I was not sure on some what people were referencing).

I did not respond to any of them.

I'm just not totally in love with the fact that some, not all, want to jump right to refs issues before looking at our own.
PurpleOut
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Sfa05 said:

Refs were awful. ACU is a better team. Turnovers! They need to learn to play together. To many! Learn to shoot and hit free throws.
They out rebounded and shot ACU. Take half the fouls away and they still lose double figures.
ACU out hustled these guys. I do not mind a loss, but not to effort. Terrible calls or not...effort.
Right now they are 3-4 in the 2nd worst conference in D1. Keller has to create something to keep these seniors next year. Top it off with guard play. David's offense is good. He's a liability with high pressure on ball defense and his own defense. Ware has a nice mid range game. Both are complimentary players as displayed last year.




Agreed all around. I thought it looked like some of the guys gave up late in the game. Not the effort I wanted to see.

Refs, as you said, were still awful.*

*not blaming the refs
Sfa05
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Master, butt was kicked regardless of typical southland refs. Good riddens next year. WAC!
PurpleOut
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MasterAxe said:

PurpleOut said:

MasterAxe said:

PurpleOut said:

MasterAxe said:

PurpleOut said:

MasterAxe said:

BigJack85 said:

TallTexan said:

MasterAxe said:

TallTexan said:

Vendetta or incompetence they still swung the game.

If that's your idea of a fairly called game, the Southland is always hiring.
Then our coaches and players did a poor job adjusting.

Look, I get it...you want to blame the refs. That's your right to do, I respect that.

I choose to say, "We played like ****, especially in the 2nd half of the 2nd half and we deserved to lose."



Who do you suggest that we should have put in to defend the paint who wasn't at risk of fouling out for... Checks notes... rebounding?

This is your schtick every time. Did SFA play our best game? No. But that's not mutually exclusive from a horse crap called game putting us in an unfair hole.

When I watch two of the best teams in the league play, one of them shouldn't have to fight with a hand tied behind their back.




Whoa there cowboys.... chill.
Civilized convo. I respect where people come from, it is just not my way of thinking.

I'll always defend the refs, they got the hardest jobs in sports.

Sure, they miss calls, happens all the time.

But we are constantly blaming them and it just feels like we're afraid to say "Hey, we got our asses kicked, it's ok, let's get back to work to make sure we're not in a position where some bad calls hurt us."

If we play as good as I think we can play (and did against NWST) then we should not be in a spot that refs impact the game.

It happens. We lost. Let's go get the next one.




You say all of this...basically every game, without understanding that nobody is "blaming" the refs. I still haven't seen one person say we lost because the refs screwed is.

If you (and I mean anyone) can't understand how officiating can swing a game, not because they did it on purpose, but because on how they call a game...then I don't care what level of basketball you officiated or how much you want to defend an official you don't know. You put ANY TEAMS best players in foul trouble, and they are at a disadvantage.

One of my good friends, that is an NCAA official, texted me earlier with only "lol."

Oh ACU also shot 25% from 3.

Everyone here has said how bad we played and how bad our turnovers were. Not sure why you think you constantly need to try to be the person to call everyone out for "blaming officials." I've rarely seen a team lose by 20 on the road while out shooting the home team. The same away team that played less outside (we took 8 threes to their 24) and have a foul discrepancy in the paint like that. Kohl and Pleasant for ACU had three fouls...COMBINED.

But yes....everyone 100% thinks the refs did us in.
Look, we are not going to agree. I say it every game because every game we lose, oddly, there are people just constantly railing on the refs.

If that's how you want to be, that's ok. That's not me.


There is 0 problem with any human being calling out bad officiating in any game, of any sport.

Never said there was.



Sorry man, but that's exactly what you are saying.

You seem to need to respond to anyone that thinks there's a bad call in a game.

Technically, not true. I went back and counted, there were at least 24 posts about officials during the course of the game. (I was conservative in counting cause I was not sure on some what people were referencing).

I did not respond to any of them.

I'm just not totally in love with the fact that some, not all, want to jump right to refs issues before looking at our own.


I understand that you don't understand the point that multiple people are making. We can leave it at that.
Sfa05
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Purple out, Agee with your analysis.
PurpleOut
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The game completely swung on Solomons technical. I didn't see enough on tv that warranted a tech. And I got a message from some at the game they didn't either and couldn't figure it out.

I'm a firm believer in momentum and different aspects that can swing a game. Whether it's real game play and/or superstition.

In the same way, with how the game was going AND being called* if I was the coach I probably TRY to get a tech to swing it back.

*not blaming the refs
Sfa05
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Have to beat Sam! Sam can shoot. We have terrible perimeter defense. I personally link that to effort but am wrong at times. I feel that way because we have athletes.
Comeaux looks more and more valuable every game. Pinky looks more and more valuable every game.
I dislike the inconsistency of Keller's team every other year. Again, I'm responding to a 9-3 team. My emotions may be clouding my judgement right now.
Sfa05
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Agreed purple our. No arguments here
PurpleOut
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Sfa05 said:

Have to beat Sam! Sam can shoot. We have terrible perimeter defense. I personally link that to effort but am wrong at times. I feel that way because we have athletes.
Comeaux looks more and more valuable every game. Pinky looks more and more valuable every game.
I dislike the inconsistency of Keller's team every other year. Again, I'm responding to a 9-3 team. My emotions may be clouding my judgement right now.


I think it was pretty obvious that our initial game plan was to double Kohl and let them shoot. ACU isn't a great shooting or offensive team, but they made the open shots tonight against the plan. I'll feel ok if that's the plan next time to be honest.

That also doesn't excuse some of the later shots. One stuck in my head was an inbounds where Daniels stood still while his man Gayman had a wide open three. I yelled at the tv before the shot went in.

Side note, does anyone else feel like our teams as of late (under Keller you could say) are terrible on set out of bounds plays? How often do we give up open shots with little time left or under the basket on inbound plays?
PurpleOut
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Staff
Sfa05 said:

Have to beat Sam! Sam can shoot. We have terrible perimeter defense. I personally link that to effort but am wrong at times. I feel that way because we have athletes.
Comeaux looks more and more valuable every game. Pinky looks more and more valuable every game.
I dislike the inconsistency of Keller's team every other year. Again, I'm responding to a 9-3 team. My emotions may be clouding my judgement right now.


Another note, while Sam will have their traditional tough team, we definitely match up better than we did tonight against ACU.

Sam will be running a smaller team and won't be able to matchup in the paint against Kensmil like ACU could with Kohl and Pleasant. And they don't have a balanced team (ACU definitely does) scoring wise.

We'll need to play much better no doubt, but this is a game I think we can win.
Sfa05
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We definitely match up better against Sam. They have us with perimeter play. Our weakness is perimeter defense.
We looked intimated against Baylor. Looked the same way the last 10 minutes at ACU.
This sounds silly, but If you have Twitter, reach out to the players with positivity. Let them know we've seen you in beast mode. Let them know they NEED to be strong and come back next year.
It's obvious they need more game time experience together. I hate social media, but it can be used in a positive manner.

I was they're age once. I had a chimp brain. From my experience they respond and handle it better than I would have. Axe em!
SFASawmillGuy
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Best way to sum it up.
They out SFAed us.
No-look
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The early fouls on our bigs (good calls or bad) set the tone for the second half. ACU took advantage of the game situation which is what good teams do. Scoring 24 points off free throws was a biggie. We shot 100% last game and couldn't seem to buy one this game. Happens sometimes. They were the better team this game but it could flip next time we meet. On to Sam and get this a three way tie for first.
But I'm still seeing that flop call against Gavin where he was at least two feet from contact. Lol Game changing
RichieVan
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Reading all the comments, it certainly seems like we all saw the same game. Was it the refs fault? I really can't say, but it certainly seems to me when two teams are competing with similar styles and one team has twice as many fouls (midway through the second half, SFA had 22 fouls, ACU 11), you can either call it an anomaly (as has been posited) or it just just flat out ineptitude. Our five bigs had 20 fouls and one technical. Their big three, Pleasant, Kohl and Gayman had three fouls COMBINED. Our game was played in the paint since we only took 8 threes and their bigs have only three fouls?
One innocuous play that stood out was a rebound put back by Kohl. Kachelries had position on Kohl, but since Kohl is so big, he could have just reached up and grabbed the ball without fouling. Instead, he gives Kachelries an forearm shiver and sends him toward the out of bounds line, then rebounds and puts it back. I re-watched most of the game, had the refs been consistent in their calling, Kohl would have fouled out just after halftime. And that's being objective. When I coached, all I asked was consistency. That was severely lacking last night.
And I challenge anyone who wants to ardently defend the refs to answer this question: How would the game have gone if Kohl, Gayman and Pleasant were forced into long stints on the bench together?
ACU's defense is very good. They had terrific ball denial, so all due credit goes to them. But when two evenly matched teams play and the home team wins by 20 and the visiting team outshoots the home team, something is amiss. The final foul total was 25-19 SFA, but as I said, at one point, it was 22-11. ACU's last seven fouls were committed after ACU already had a 14+ point lead.
Lastly, on the Solomon technical. This exact situation occurred when I coached (middle school and freshmen). There was a scrum on the floor and tempers were raised. One of my players was watching and did not participate in the scrum and gave no indication he was going to participate (same as Solomon). The ref placed his hand on my player and started to push him back and he swatted at the ref and was ejected. I appealed to the league and ref was suspended and the league said the ref had no business touching my player. Calvin was probably already aggravated over the disparate foul calls, which led to his visceral reaction, but just as players can't touch refs, the opposite is true unless there is good reason and, in this case, there was no reason for the ref to initiate contact. Just my two cents.
PurpleOut
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RichieVan said:

Reading all the comments, it certainly seems like we all saw the same game. Was it the refs fault? I really can't say, but it certainly seems to me when two teams are competing with similar styles and one team has twice as many fouls (midway through the second half, SFA had 22 fouls, ACU 11), you can either call it an anomaly (as has been posited) or it just just flat out ineptitude. Our five bigs had 20 fouls and one technical. Their big three, Pleasant, Kohl and Gayman had three fouls COMBINED. Our game was played in the paint since we only took 8 threes and their bigs have only three fouls?
One innocuous play that stood out was a rebound put back by Kohl. Kachelries had position on Kohl, but since Kohl is so big, he could have just reached up and grabbed the ball without fouling. Instead, he gives Kachelries an forearm shiver and sends him toward the out of bounds line, then rebounds and puts it back. I re-watched most of the game, had the refs been consistent in their calling, Kohl would have fouled out just after halftime. And that's being objective. When I coached, all I asked was consistency. That was severely lacking last night.
And I challenge anyone who wants to ardently defend the refs to answer this question: How would the game have gone if Kohl, Gayman and Pleasant were forced into long stints on the bench together?
ACU's defense is very good. They had terrific ball denial, so all due credit goes to them. But when two evenly matched teams play and the home team wins by 20 and the visiting team outshoots the home team, something is amiss. The final foul total was 25-19 SFA, but as I said, at one point, it was 22-11. ACU's last seven fouls were committed after ACU already had a 14+ point lead.
Lastly, on the Solomon technical. This exact situation occurred when I coached (middle school and freshmen). There was a scrum on the floor and tempers were raised. One of my players was watching and did not participate in the scrum and gave no indication he was going to participate (same as Solomon). The ref placed his hand on my player and started to push him back and he swatted at the ref and was ejected. I appealed to the league and ref was suspended and the league said the ref had no business touching my player. Calvin was probably already aggravated over the disparate foul calls, which led to his visceral reaction, but just as players can't touch refs, the opposite is true unless there is good reason and, in this case, there was no reason for the ref to initiate contact. Just my two cents.
The reaction from our staff and the bench on a lot of those calls should tell us what we already know.

The Solomon technical only happened because the ACU player literally jumped on David when he's on the ground to try for the tie ball. That's a foul that I see called 99.99% of the time. You can't jump on a player.

That was the turning point in the game*



*not blaming the refs
RichieVan
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Not trying to be confrontational, but this board is to discuss and dissect why the Jacks won or lost. We opine as to not only how the team played, but factors that INFLUENCED how we played.
No one I've seen said the refs were the reason we lost, but could it have been a factor? If your answer is "no", then you really need to re-think how you watch a ball game. No one is saying there is a conspiracy, because there is no conspiracy, but they can certainly have a bad night or just be inept. If I wasn't 1500 miles away, I would fill out the job application you posted.
If you can't see that a player plays differently if they have two fouls early or three fouls late in the first half or four fouls with 13 minutes left in the game, then you just don't know basketball. Their three big players, with three total fouls combined, can play much more aggressively. If you watch a game in which both teams are playing in a similar fashion and the foul calling is provably disparate then, yes, the refs are influencing the game. So, with all of your bigs in trouble and their bigs not even being called for fouls, exactly what adjustments do you make to win this game? Be specific. Are you suggesting an all guard lineup where ACU dominates the paint?
See my previous post. At one point, the fouls were 2-1 against SFA and we were the team attacking the rim. The last 7 ACU fouls were just putting lipstick on a pig. The game had already been decided.
To be clear, these are two evenly matched teams and ACU has proven they are capable of beating us. But to dismiss game flow and how players play when in foul trouble, due to disparate foul calls, is to deny reality. There is no adjustment to ineptitude.
MasterAxe
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I see I am making friends.

It appears the board has turned on me.
PurpleOut
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MasterAxe said:

I see I am making friends.

It appears the board has turned on me.
I'm adding an asterisks to my posts that involve bad calls just so it's clear that I'm not actually blaming the refs.

Nobody has turned on you, but like everyone has said, just because someone mentions a bad call that impacts a play...doesn't mean we're overlooking other aspects. I've never seen anyone since I started this forum blame an actual loss in any sport, on officiating.
MasterAxe
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PurpleOut said:

MasterAxe said:

I see I am making friends.

It appears the board has turned on me.
I'm adding an asterisks to my posts that involve bad calls just so it's clear that I'm not actually blaming the refs.

Nobody has turned on you, but like everyone has said, just because someone mentions a bad call that impacts a play...doesn't mean we're overlooking other aspects. I've never seen anyone since I started this forum blame an actual loss in any sport, on officiating.

And just because I don't sit here and criticize the refs constantly, does not mean I don't think there are bad calls.

I choose to look at facts. We left 23 points on the table.

-12 3 Point FG's
-11 on missed free throws.

Those things are independent of any officiating issues that may occur.

I see way more..."If only the game was called fair!" posts than I do "Well, Gavin and Nigel went 6-14 from the line, that's not winning basketball."

We are just not going to agree. I just don't think the officials influence the game as much as others do. I think we influence our own game.

Even you said it looked like we gave up.
nacluth
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MasterAxe said:

I see I am making friends.

It appears the board has turned on me.
I've warmed up to you quite a bit over the years.

I used to ref soccer which can be hard to determine when physicality crosses over into advantage. The same is true in basketball. Technically shoving is a foul, but everyone shoves. If the shoving gives an advantage, then it should be called. Hand checks on guards the same. I tried to call games evenly, but sometimes you're more unbalanced than you realize.

In the game last night, the disparity wasn't in how many fouls were necessarily called, it was where they were called. Our bigs were being called, but the make up call was on their guards. Our big guys are more physical period. Some days it's going to go like that.

Again, it was the tech that ultimately swung the game and our inability to control the momentum off of it. ACU won playing their game. We'll win next time if we play ours.
RichieVan
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First, most of your points are a given. You want to shoot at least 33%from three but aim to shoot high 30's to 40% overall, so they didn't leave 12 points on threes. They left 3, maybe 6.
Your point on free throws is well taken. They certainly left 11 points on the floor.
Did they seem to give up at the end? Yes, I think so.
But you are clearly missing the point. In the past, we have overcome poor shooting to win games. Last year in Abilene, we left 19 points on the floor, shooting 56.8% from the line. It happens.
So let's make the connection. You admit there are bad calls. If several bad calls are made and puts players in foul trouble, those players play differently. It's just a fact and it influences the game.
I've always asked refs to be consistent. Be consistently good or consistently bad, just be consistent. If you watched last night's game and can claim any level of consistency, then there is nothing to discuss.
MasterAxe
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nacluth said:

MasterAxe said:

I see I am making friends.

It appears the board has turned on me.
I've warmed up to you quite a bit over the years.


I don't know who you are, but I ****ING LOVE YOU TOO.

I was a huge twat at the beginning of the Keller era. Probably irrationally so.


PurpleOut
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MasterAxe said:

PurpleOut said:

MasterAxe said:

I see I am making friends.

It appears the board has turned on me.
I'm adding an asterisks to my posts that involve bad calls just so it's clear that I'm not actually blaming the refs.

Nobody has turned on you, but like everyone has said, just because someone mentions a bad call that impacts a play...doesn't mean we're overlooking other aspects. I've never seen anyone since I started this forum blame an actual loss in any sport, on officiating.

And just because I don't sit here and criticize the refs constantly, does not mean I don't think there are bad calls.

I choose to look at facts. We left 23 points on the table.

-12 3 Point FG's
-11 on missed free throws.

Those things are independent of any officiating issues that may occur.

I see way more..."If only the game was called fair!" posts than I do "Well, Gavin and Nigel went 6-14 from the line, that's not winning basketball."

We are just not going to agree. I just don't think the officials influence the game as much as others do. I think we influence our own game.

Even you said it looked like we gave up.
We gave up at the end. You're still missing the point, everyone's point, on how the game was called that led up to that point.

I'm not sure what else to tell you if you don't understand everyone's point on how any game can be called a certain way that would eventually influence how the rest of the game goes and eventually the outcome. We don't have to post the same stats on missing FTs at the same time...we still (all of us) mentioned that. Do you not see the point of how our game plan and style can be/was altered with every single big man in foul trouble...in the first half?

Hell, I've seen the same really bad called games go in our favor in Nac over the years.
MasterAxe
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PurpleOut said:

MasterAxe said:

PurpleOut said:

MasterAxe said:

I see I am making friends.

It appears the board has turned on me.
I'm adding an asterisks to my posts that involve bad calls just so it's clear that I'm not actually blaming the refs.

Nobody has turned on you, but like everyone has said, just because someone mentions a bad call that impacts a play...doesn't mean we're overlooking other aspects. I've never seen anyone since I started this forum blame an actual loss in any sport, on officiating.

And just because I don't sit here and criticize the refs constantly, does not mean I don't think there are bad calls.

I choose to look at facts. We left 23 points on the table.

-12 3 Point FG's
-11 on missed free throws.

Those things are independent of any officiating issues that may occur.

I see way more..."If only the game was called fair!" posts than I do "Well, Gavin and Nigel went 6-14 from the line, that's not winning basketball."

We are just not going to agree. I just don't think the officials influence the game as much as others do. I think we influence our own game.

Even you said it looked like we gave up.
We gave up at the end. You're still missing the point, everyone's point, on how the game was called that led up to that point.

I'm not sure what else to tell you if you don't understand everyone's point on how any game can be called a certain way that would eventually influence how the rest of the game goes and eventually the outcome. We don't have to post the same stats on missing FTs at the same time...we still (all of us) mentioned that. Do you not see the point of how our game plan and style can be/was altered with every single big man in foul trouble...in the first half?

Hell, I've seen the same really bad called games go in our favor in Nac over the years.

Then we must adjust. KK gets alot of money to manage game flow.


PurpleOut
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MasterAxe said:

PurpleOut said:

MasterAxe said:

PurpleOut said:

MasterAxe said:

I see I am making friends.

It appears the board has turned on me.
I'm adding an asterisks to my posts that involve bad calls just so it's clear that I'm not actually blaming the refs.

Nobody has turned on you, but like everyone has said, just because someone mentions a bad call that impacts a play...doesn't mean we're overlooking other aspects. I've never seen anyone since I started this forum blame an actual loss in any sport, on officiating.

And just because I don't sit here and criticize the refs constantly, does not mean I don't think there are bad calls.

I choose to look at facts. We left 23 points on the table.

-12 3 Point FG's
-11 on missed free throws.

Those things are independent of any officiating issues that may occur.

I see way more..."If only the game was called fair!" posts than I do "Well, Gavin and Nigel went 6-14 from the line, that's not winning basketball."

We are just not going to agree. I just don't think the officials influence the game as much as others do. I think we influence our own game.

Even you said it looked like we gave up.
We gave up at the end. You're still missing the point, everyone's point, on how the game was called that led up to that point.

I'm not sure what else to tell you if you don't understand everyone's point on how any game can be called a certain way that would eventually influence how the rest of the game goes and eventually the outcome. We don't have to post the same stats on missing FTs at the same time...we still (all of us) mentioned that. Do you not see the point of how our game plan and style can be/was altered with every single big man in foul trouble...in the first half?

Hell, I've seen the same really bad called games go in our favor in Nac over the years.
Then we must adjust. KK gets alot of money to manage game flow.
100% agree.
 
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