nacluth said:

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83-73 HCU final. WORST CONFERENCE START THIS CENTURY.

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nacluth said:

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83-73 HCU final. WORST CONFERENCE START THIS CENTURY.

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No-look said:

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This hurts. It is what it is. We don't have the overall talent this year. Feel bad for the players and coaches. I want Keller to succeed. But the talent is just not there. There's no fiddle in the band.

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No-look said:

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This hurts. It is what it is. We don't have the overall talent this year. Feel bad for the players and coaches. I want Keller to succeed. But the talent is just not there. There's no fiddle in the band.

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nacluth said:

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BigJack85 said:

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nacluth said:

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83-73 HCU final. WORST CONFERENCE START THIS CENTURY.

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It's near the bottom. Sad.

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No I mean that it actually is the worst. No team this century has start 0-4 in conference play.

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SCH890 said:

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No-look said:

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This hurts. It is what it is. We don't have the overall talent this year. Feel bad for the players and coaches. I want Keller to succeed. But the talent is just not there. There's no fiddle in the band.

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I don't get why yall are saying we don't have talent this year. We do have talent. Just not using them to their strengths. We are just getting master classes by better shooters. Defense isn't going to win us the game actually shooting the ball and ball movement.

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MasterAxe2 said:

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SCH890 said:

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No-look said:

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This hurts. It is what it is. We don't have the overall talent this year. Feel bad for the players and coaches. I want Keller to succeed. But the talent is just not there. There's no fiddle in the band.

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I don't get why yall are saying we don't have talent this year. We do have talent. Just not using them to their strengths. We are just getting master classes by better shooters. Defense isn't going to win us the game actually shooting the ball and ball movement.

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If another team has better shooters, by very definition that means they are more talented than us.

Hence…we aren't that talented.

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Ljacks&Longnecks said:

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What we have seen is what we got. Team has played the same all year, decent defense but no scoring. It's not going to change. This coaching staff and team will need a complete rebuild. Without change, there won't be any improvement.
This reminds me of when Harper was football coach. As soon as he lost Moses and others to graduation, the talent went down and Harper was obviously just going through the motions and the W-L record went south. Appears Keller is at that same point. Supported Keller for years but last year was bad, then half the team wanted to leave and this season is a bust. Very hard to find many or any good points to discuss. Whether it is that Keller and staff have "lost" the control or loyalty of the players or if our talent level is below par, the results are poor and unacceptable if our goal is to win in the SLC and make some NCAA Dances. Not going to happen without some wholesale changes.

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Ljacks&Longnecks said:

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What we have seen is what we got. Team has played the same all year, decent defense but no scoring. It's not going to change. This coaching staff and team will need a complete rebuild. Without change, there won't be any improvement.
This reminds me of when Harper was football coach. As soon as he lost Moses and others to graduation, the talent went down and Harper was obviously just going through the motions and the W-L record went south. Appears Keller is at that same point. Supported Keller for years but last year was bad, then half the team wanted to leave and this season is a bust. Very hard to find many or any good points to discuss. Whether it is that Keller and staff have "lost" the control or loyalty of the players or if our talent level is below par, the results are poor and unacceptable if our goal is to win in the SLC and make some NCAA Dances. Not going to happen without some wholesale changes.

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SFASawmillGuy said:

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I think it's clear that Kyle Keller is just not a good Mid Major coach. He wants to build a team that can beat you by just plain being better than you. That works if you can recruit that. But we can't. And never will be able to do that.

With Underwood, we weren't better than VCU talent wise. Or WVU. Or any of the big time opponents we beat or came close to beating under him. Underwood understood that at the Mid Major level, you need to make a gameplan and scheme that can beat anyone. Which is just what he did.

Keller runs a gameplan that would work at say a Texas A&M. It's a system where you have better athletes and you impose your will. The problem is we can't get those better athletes. The only time we did was 2020 when we beat Duke. That season, we had the talent and ability to go far. Not sweet 16. I legitimately believe we had the talent to beat anyone we came in contact with and if given the chance, we could've been the Cinderella dancing after midnight.

That lets me know he's not a bad coach, but he can't coach at this level.

At this point, I think he sees that too. Everything about him tells me he's quit on this team. They've quit on him. I don't think at the time it was a bad hire. But short of a miraculous turnaround and winning the conference tournament, I think the clock has run out.

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AxeEm99 said:

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I think there is a huge double standard here! I like Keller! Bottomline, he is having an off year. I find it comical that some of the same people who are ok with our mediocre football program and the same results year after year want to fire Keller after 1 off year! The only true fact is that Keller has delivered a lot more than Carthel ever has up to this point!!

I do not know the inner workings of this idea but perhaps Keller could release the current team and scholarships at the conclusion of the season and head for the portal like Carthel did....

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SCH890 said:

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AxeEm99 said:

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I think there is a huge double standard here! I like Keller! Bottomline, he is having an off year. I find it comical that some of the same people who are ok with our mediocre football program and the same results year after year want to fire Keller after 1 off year! The only true fact is that Keller has delivered a lot more than Carthel ever has up to this point!!

I do not know the inner workings of this idea but perhaps Keller could release the current team and scholarships at the conclusion of the season and head for the portal like Carthel did....

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I don't know man. You say Keller has done more than Carthel thats a stretch lol. Both have made the Playoffs as in the Big Dance and FCS Playoffs once. There been multiple down years with Keller while with Carthel theres been two one being the inherited squad from Conque. The biggest success story with Keller is the Duke game and thats it. Im just wanting change within the basketball culture. It just seems like Keller isn't really adapting to the game infront of him while Carthel is taking full advantage of it. Plus I do enjoy how Carthel is more public with his reasonings and being active on Twitter.

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BigJack85 said:

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SCH890 said:

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AxeEm99 said:

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I think there is a huge double standard here! I like Keller! Bottomline, he is having an off year. I find it comical that some of the same people who are ok with our mediocre football program and the same results year after year want to fire Keller after 1 off year! The only true fact is that Keller has delivered a lot more than Carthel ever has up to this point!!

I do not know the inner workings of this idea but perhaps Keller could release the current team and scholarships at the conclusion of the season and head for the portal like Carthel did....

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I don't know man. You say Keller has done more than Carthel thats a stretch lol. Both have made the Playoffs as in the Big Dance and FCS Playoffs once. There been multiple down years with Keller while with Carthel theres been two one being the inherited squad from Conque. The biggest success story with Keller is the Duke game and thats it. Im just wanting change within the basketball culture. It just seems like Keller isn't really adapting to the game infront of him while Carthel is taking full advantage of it. Plus I do enjoy how Carthel is more public with his reasonings and being active on Twitter.

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Define "down year". 21 wins? 19 wins? 18 wins? I start around the 19 win mark (which we won't even sniff this year).

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2much2na said:

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There's a lot of interesting points being brought up in this thread. So much so, I've been drawn out of my lurking and made an account! This is just a rant that won't do anything to move the needle but I feel like I should say it all. (Sorry for the dissertation).

For starters: I think I have a different criteria for success than the athletic department (and that's ok). If you don't make the tournament, I think it's a failed season. BUT I'm willing to negotiate down to an over/under of 19.5 wins being my "success criteria." I was a student from 2012-2016 so we lost a grand total of 3 conference games and 19 total games when I was in school. I get that I was spoiled during that time but why wouldn't you want something like that back?

I think the athletic department needs a "flagship" men's sport - there's just not enough money to be great at everything here in Nac. I would love for that sport to be basketball, especially since (in my opinion) it has the best facilities and basketball is my favorite sport. If men's basketball is going to be the flagship, we need someone else in charge.

Now with only 3 seasons over 19.5 wins, how can we argue that Keller is this great recruiter? Because he adds guys that look good on paper before getting to us? We've had quite a few HUGE gets recently only for them to be off the team within the season. If they're removed due to behavioral concerns, that's bad recruiting imo. Please stop saying he's a great recruiter. Good recruits develop into good players, good teammates, and win games.

My last complaint is with the crowd (excluding games during breaks). No college student in their right mind wants to watch a losing effort but even in Keller's best seasons, there just hasn't been a crowd. Having gone to several games pre and post covid, there really hasn't been much of an atmosphere change in WRJ so don't blame that event. Not sure what happened with us when I was in school but we had a significantly larger crowd of students back then attending games. We need a coach/system that gets the crowd excited to be there.

I'm picky though. I want to win the conference every year, I want to go to the dance every year, and I want to see some capacity crowds in Nac again. It's competition. You should hate losing more than you love winning. We'll see if I come back for any replies but… Thanks for your time and remember, "the only thing worse than beating a dead horse is betting on one."

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2much2na said:

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There's a lot of interesting points being brought up in this thread. So much so, I've been drawn out of my lurking and made an account! This is just a rant that won't do anything to move the needle but I feel like I should say it all. (Sorry for the dissertation).

For starters: I think I have a different criteria for success than the athletic department (and that's ok). If you don't make the tournament, I think it's a failed season. BUT I'm willing to negotiate down to an over/under of 19.5 wins being my "success criteria." I was a student from 2012-2016 so we lost a grand total of 3 conference games and 19 total games when I was in school. I get that I was spoiled during that time but why wouldn't you want something like that back?

I think the athletic department needs a "flagship" men's sport - there's just not enough money to be great at everything here in Nac. I would love for that sport to be basketball, especially since (in my opinion) it has the best facilities and basketball is my favorite sport. If men's basketball is going to be the flagship, we need someone else in charge.

Now with only 3 seasons over 19.5 wins, how can we argue that Keller is this great recruiter? Because he adds guys that look good on paper before getting to us? We've had quite a few HUGE gets recently only for them to be off the team within the season. If they're removed due to behavioral concerns, that's bad recruiting imo. Please stop saying he's a great recruiter. Good recruits develop into good players, good teammates, and win games.

My last complaint is with the crowd (excluding games during breaks). No college student in their right mind wants to watch a losing effort but even in Keller's best seasons, there just hasn't been a crowd. Having gone to several games pre and post covid, there really hasn't been much of an atmosphere change in WRJ so don't blame that event. Not sure what happened with us when I was in school but we had a significantly larger crowd of students back then attending games. We need a coach/system that gets the crowd excited to be there.

I'm picky though. I want to win the conference every year, I want to go to the dance every year, and I want to see some capacity crowds in Nac again. It's competition. You should hate losing more than you love winning. We'll see if I come back for any replies but… Thanks for your time and remember, "the only thing worse than beating a dead horse is betting on one."

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FBK_Lumberjack said:

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I've seen a lot of different iterations of Kyle Keller teams over my time at SFA, and while this is very far from our best roster, it's certainly performing among the worst. Why is that? I believe the problem is three-fold.

1. There are talented players throughout the roster, but they don't mesh well. Our typical starting lineup consists of Keon (OK shooter), Matt (OK shooter), Chrishawn (terrible shooter), Juhlwanei (bad shooter) and Nana (OK shooter). Off the bench you have Myles (OK at best), Dominic (OK shooter), Keith (started hot but cant shoot anymore), Clayton (poor shooter) and Sylla (poor shooter). At any given time with these guys on the floor, you'll have Chrishawn/Myles/Keith and one of the bigs outside to clear up space inside for a drive by Matt/Keon/Dominic or a feed in to the post. We typically like to feed in to the post and then either try and draw a foul/score in close or kick it out to shooters. But without reliable shooters on the wing, teams don't respect them and they will sag in to stop the post feed (we saw HCU collapse 2-3 guys in to help defend the post every time we tried to feed it. This gives our post players less of an opening to make a move and opens them up to get blocked by the help side defender thats collapsing, or if they kick it out our best hope is for a Hayman 3 (30.8 percent), Lamar 3 (20 percent), Dom 3 (24 percent) or a Chrishawn 3 (12.5 percent)? Yikes. Bottom line this comes down to shooting. If you dont have guys who can reliably space the floor, defenses wont respect them, and they'll cheat down to close up the post. When we had guys like Kevon, Ivan Canete, Kachelries, Cam Johnson, Roti, Nigel Hawkins, Jossell or Frank Staine out on the perimeter, you got punished if you cheated inside. Now you won't. Not repeatedly.

2. Keller seems to have mailed it in. I sit close by our bench every game and I can't remember ever seeing him so listless. He used to coach with a lot more passion, more energy. He used to have an occasional outburst, or argue a call enough to get a tech. And while the goal shouldnt be to get a tech, sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do as a coach to fire up your team. Pick a call that you know you're right about, that our fans are up in arms about, that your players are incensed about, and argue it. Make a point. Good coaches work the officials throughout the game, its a game in and of itself, and he used to play it pretty well. Now it's him appearing a lot less animated, a lot less invested in the outcome, and a lot more of his wife complaining constantly about foul counts. I think he's seen the writing on the wall about the makeup of this team, and he's kind of mailing it in on this season.

3. #PressU is dead and gone, but we still try and play the same way? Back when we were trying to brand ourselves as #PressU, our defensive pressure excelled at causing turnovers, which is a good and easy way of generating points in the aggregate. While we are (surprisingly) still in the Top 50 in turnovers forced per game, we're less effective at that against D1 teams, and overall we're doing a lot more "flying around" and a lot less "forcing turnovers". Any lapse in the rotations or miscommunication by our guys, and its a wide open corner 3. How many of those have you seen made on us this year? It kills us every game.

I think the Keller era needs to come to a close. Bring in a fresh face with some new energy and zeal for recruiting. We seem to restock the cupboard every year in the portal but we struggle to find cohesion and the locker room always seems to be on shaky ground 1/3 of the way into the season.

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