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SFA / Utah Tech - WACVegas Round 1
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Last: 1 yr ago by SFA Jack Fanatic
No words! Another stinker at the end of the season!
Please SFA, let this death spiral season end.....Do NOT accept any invite to a 5th rate tourney. Let it go.
This team was much better than 19-13. Injuries killed this season from the beginning. I'm sure Keller will be on the recruiting trail tomorrow.
Shooting has been offfffff for a few games.
Axe 'Em Jacks - Class of 85'
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Disappointing season comes to a disappointing end. A first round loss to an 18-loss team makes me sick.
Ljacks&Longnecks said:
Please SFA, let this death spiral season end.....Do NOT accept any invite to a 5th rate tourney. Let it go.
I disagree. Get the taste of this stinker out of their mouths with a few wins.
Time to fully support the good SFA basketball team for the rest of the week.
SFA Jack Fanatic said:Ljacks&Longnecks said:
Please SFA, let this death spiral season end.....Do NOT accept any invite to a 5th rate tourney. Let it go.
I disagree. Get the taste of this stinker out of their mouths with a few wins.
I disagree to your disagree. This team plays for the big dance. No reason to risk the health of our guys for something that doesn't benefit SFA in any way, and can actually hurt the effort if we lose in the opening round.
We are not a threat to beat anyone right now. Day Day obviously still hurt, no Nana
Call it a season and stay home.
Call it a season and stay home.
Losers 80-76.
The only question is in what round does Sam lose?
Hard to categorize 19 wins as a failed season, but sure feels like it. 40+ point loss and one and done in the tourney to a very bad team whose only tactic was they wanted it more? Injuries all year, to the extent we couldn't field practice? In fact, a series of losses to bad teams. We don't scare anyone anymore. It feels like any swagger we had walked out the door with Mason and Cox. Oh well, we'll get 'em next year. Maybe we can get back to being the team nobody wants to play in March.
Lumberjack Battalion
Lumberjacks make great US Army Special Ops Officers - AxeEm!
Lumberjacks make great US Army Special Ops Officers - AxeEm!
A good ending note for how our athletic department is going. If a 7 win conference championship year in football and a 19 win season in basketball is considered a bad year, you've developed a culture of winning at your school. We need to hang on to that.
If this squad was healthy all season, there's probably atleast another 5-7 wins on the schedule, with both Sam games within reach.
We definitely need another big who can score and we should look at whether we can adjust training and rest to decrease injuries, but still proud of these guys for the season they did have.
Just no gas left in the tank to end the season.
We definitely need another big who can score and we should look at whether we can adjust training and rest to decrease injuries, but still proud of these guys for the season they did have.
Just no gas left in the tank to end the season.
And another season grinds to an abrupt halt.
We can blame the injuries, the refs, the travel etc…doesn't really matter.
Facts don't lie.
Keller has been here 7 years (5 postseason eligible years)
In those five years: (in no particular order)
One NCAA
Out the SLC 2nd round
Twice out in WAC 1st round
Missed SLC tourney.
Folks, that's bad.
I said in another thread I thought a program goal should be the NCAA tournament each year.
I was told that was probably unrealistic.
Whelp, y'all were right.
New program goal: Win A game in the conference tourney.
I'm trying not to be pessimistic too much, but for all the money/facilities we pound our chest about, and how awesome a recruiter he "allegedly" is…we sure don't have a lot to show for it.
Utah Tech has 18 losses! EIGHTEEN!
Five years, we haven't won any type of post-season game in FIVE years.
That's a bad trend.
Maybe I'm wrong, maybe Keller needs more time.
Is seven years not enough time?
"Next year is our year." - Aggie Football/SFA Basketball
Appreciate the fun banter all year everyone.
Sucks it ended like this, again.
We can blame the injuries, the refs, the travel etc…doesn't really matter.
Facts don't lie.
Keller has been here 7 years (5 postseason eligible years)
In those five years: (in no particular order)
One NCAA
Out the SLC 2nd round
Twice out in WAC 1st round
Missed SLC tourney.
Folks, that's bad.
I said in another thread I thought a program goal should be the NCAA tournament each year.
I was told that was probably unrealistic.
Whelp, y'all were right.
New program goal: Win A game in the conference tourney.
I'm trying not to be pessimistic too much, but for all the money/facilities we pound our chest about, and how awesome a recruiter he "allegedly" is…we sure don't have a lot to show for it.
Utah Tech has 18 losses! EIGHTEEN!
Five years, we haven't won any type of post-season game in FIVE years.
That's a bad trend.
Maybe I'm wrong, maybe Keller needs more time.
Is seven years not enough time?
"Next year is our year." - Aggie Football/SFA Basketball
Appreciate the fun banter all year everyone.
Sucks it ended like this, again.
SFASawmillGuy said:
A good ending note for how our athletic department is going. If a 7 win conference championship year in football and a 19 win season in basketball is considered a bad year, you've developed a culture of winning at your school. We need to hang on to that.
I agree. It's an interesting thought, though, if the goal is to get to the conference tournament and advance, then it's not a wild idea to ponder that UTRGV+ had a more successful season than us with 18 loses. I think to have a true culture of winning, it needs to continue in the post season, at least past the first round the majority of the time. This just hits home for me the opportunity covid took away.
Lumberjack Battalion
Lumberjacks make great US Army Special Ops Officers - AxeEm!
Lumberjacks make great US Army Special Ops Officers - AxeEm!
SFASawmillGuy said:
A good ending note for how our athletic department is going. If a 7 win conference championship year in football and a 19 win season in basketball is considered a bad year, you've developed a culture of winning at your school. We need to hang on to that.
I very much want to believe you.
But, facts don't lie.
No football post-season wins in 14 years
No basketball post-season wins (of any kind) in 5 years.
The "winning culture" you speak of…it's regular season only.
We've had a culture of winning in basketball for the last 20+ years. Only difference is we weren't getting bounced in the first round of the conference tournament and were competing for NCAA tournament bids.SFASawmillGuy said:
A good ending note for how our athletic department is going. If a 7 win conference championship year in football and a 19 win season in basketball is considered a bad year, you've developed a culture of winning at your school. We need to hang on to that.
I'm tired of the excuses the last few years and the "oh just wait until next year."
Also, how the heck are we the most injured team? Is our S&C coach and trainers bad at their job or is Keller running the team into the ground at practice? We have the facilities (a lot better facilities than others) to treat the players so why are they getting injured more than other teams.
Keller might be a heck of a recruiter but he needs to recruit for the WAC and not the Southland.
Something needs to change. I don't think Keller can hang his hat on the Duke win any longer. The players gave everything they had this season and the coaching staff did them no favors.
Losing in the first game in back to back seasons is unacceptable.
I agree with you 100% Master Axe.. A change needs to be made..
In the last 5 seasons, we missed the cut, had COVID, got banned, and had two one and done postseason appearances. (0-2). Edit: forgot the CBI last year. (0-3)
Ladyjacks in the same time, lost in conference finals went to WNIT, had COVID, won 2 and went to the NCAA's, won 2 and went to the NCAA's. (5-4). That's without playing a game this postseason.
I know that it's like comparing apples to oranges and men's and women's success shouldn't be linked, but their facilities and funding sure are linked in critical ways even if their competition levels aren't. Just another frustrating end for the guys. I hope the ladies can cheer this tired fan up.
Ladyjacks in the same time, lost in conference finals went to WNIT, had COVID, won 2 and went to the NCAA's, won 2 and went to the NCAA's. (5-4). That's without playing a game this postseason.
I know that it's like comparing apples to oranges and men's and women's success shouldn't be linked, but their facilities and funding sure are linked in critical ways even if their competition levels aren't. Just another frustrating end for the guys. I hope the ladies can cheer this tired fan up.
MasterAxe said:
And another season grinds to an abrupt halt.
We can blame the injuries, the refs, the travel etc…doesn't really matter.
Facts don't lie.
Keller has been here 7 years (5 postseason eligible years)
In those five years: (in no particular order)
One NCAA
Out the SLC 2nd round
Twice out in WAC 1st round
Missed SLC tourney.
Folks, that's bad.
I said in another thread I thought a program goal should be the NCAA tournament each year.
I was told that was probably unrealistic.
Whelp, y'all were right.
New program goal: Win A game in the conference tourney.
I'm trying not to be pessimistic too much, but for all the money/facilities we pound our chest about, and how awesome a recruiter he "allegedly" is…we sure don't have a lot to show for it.
Utah Tech has 18 losses! EIGHTEEN!
Five years, we haven't won any type of post-season game in FIVE years.
That's a bad trend.
Maybe I'm wrong, maybe Keller needs more time.
Is seven years not enough time?
"Next year is our year." - Aggie Football/SFA Basketball
Appreciate the fun banter all year everyone.
Sucks it ended like this, again.
I disagree with your overall sentiment massively. SFA isn't guaranteed post season births just based on our pedigree.
Keller's (almost 70%) winning percentage is outstanding. I suspect he will come back better, next year.
Anyone want to take a chance on going back to the Ned Fowler years. That's what you risk if you let Keller go. 19-13 is a huge disappointment, but what are reasonable expectations. Next year we need to see improvement, at the post season level. For sure. We could take some risks if we had an unlimited budget , like UT or A&M. We don't. Keller can get us back to the top of the mountain. That Duke victory is not that far in the rear view mirror.
Axe 'Em Jacks - Class of 85'
The entire year was uneven. The guys put a ton of effort, especially early in the season when they couldn't even have full practices due to injuries. There was just nothing left in the tank at the end. The shooting was off, but what really bothers me is that we are still not taking care of the ball. We're great at creating turnovers, but 340th in offensive efficiency speaks to coaching. Now, some of that can be blamed on the fact players were playing out of position due to injuries and some can be blamed by the fact no team has to honor our inside-out game. Coach Keller needs to do a deep post mortem on this season and adjust accordingly.
I see two things this year that set the tone. Injuries and front court recruiting. Not sure why we have more practice injuries every year than other teams. That needs to be looked into…As Charlie Daniels would say " if you're gonna play in Texas you gotta have a fiddle in the band" There was no fiddle in the front court this year. Nana played a role(well) that wasn't intended. Hope all our players stay. I like what we have, just need a couple WAC bigs (not Southland) that can defend and score. It's my nature to defend coaches when things go wrong as they put in countless hours. I'm thinking Keller knows what needs to be corrected. So we will see
Reasonable opposing viewpoint:BigJack85 said:MasterAxe said:
And another season grinds to an abrupt halt.
We can blame the injuries, the refs, the travel etc…doesn't really matter.
Facts don't lie.
Keller has been here 7 years (5 postseason eligible years)
In those five years: (in no particular order)
One NCAA
Out the SLC 2nd round
Twice out in WAC 1st round
Missed SLC tourney.
Folks, that's bad.
I said in another thread I thought a program goal should be the NCAA tournament each year.
I was told that was probably unrealistic.
Whelp, y'all were right.
New program goal: Win A game in the conference tourney.
I'm trying not to be pessimistic too much, but for all the money/facilities we pound our chest about, and how awesome a recruiter he "allegedly" is…we sure don't have a lot to show for it.
Utah Tech has 18 losses! EIGHTEEN!
Five years, we haven't won any type of post-season game in FIVE years.
That's a bad trend.
Maybe I'm wrong, maybe Keller needs more time.
Is seven years not enough time?
"Next year is our year." - Aggie Football/SFA Basketball
Appreciate the fun banter all year everyone.
Sucks it ended like this, again.
I disagree with your overall sentiment massively. SFA isn't guaranteed post season births just based on our pedigree.
Keller's (almost 70%) winning percentage is outstanding. I suspect he will come back better, next year.
Anyone want to take a chance on going back to the Ned Fowler years. That's what you risk if you let Keller go. 19-13 is a huge disappointment, but what are reasonable expectations. Next year we need to see improvement, at the post season level. For sure. We could take some risks if we had an unlimited budget , like UT or A&M. We don't. Keller can get us back to the top of the mountain. That Duke victory is not that far in the rear view mirror.
Correct, we are not guaranteed anything. But, we're not even putting ourselves in a competitive position to even make the NCAA. That's an issue.
You ask what a "reasonable expectation" is, well, that's it. Not getting one-and-doned.
We can't even get out of the first round.
For as much as we hang on the Duke win as "See, this is how good we could be," we sure do have a lot of losses (like Utah Tech) that scream "see, this is how far away we are."
And that 70% is outstanding...for the regular season.
It has translated into almost nothing in the postseason.
I have heard nothing to not suppor that Keller is a great guy, I'm sure he is.
But, the numbers don't lie.
When it matters most, in the postseason, he/team just are not getting it done.
MasterAxe said:Reasonable opposing viewpoint:BigJack85 said:MasterAxe said:
And another season grinds to an abrupt halt.
We can blame the injuries, the refs, the travel etc…doesn't really matter.
Facts don't lie.
Keller has been here 7 years (5 postseason eligible years)
In those five years: (in no particular order)
One NCAA
Out the SLC 2nd round
Twice out in WAC 1st round
Missed SLC tourney.
Folks, that's bad.
I said in another thread I thought a program goal should be the NCAA tournament each year.
I was told that was probably unrealistic.
Whelp, y'all were right.
New program goal: Win A game in the conference tourney.
I'm trying not to be pessimistic too much, but for all the money/facilities we pound our chest about, and how awesome a recruiter he "allegedly" is…we sure don't have a lot to show for it.
Utah Tech has 18 losses! EIGHTEEN!
Five years, we haven't won any type of post-season game in FIVE years.
That's a bad trend.
Maybe I'm wrong, maybe Keller needs more time.
Is seven years not enough time?
"Next year is our year." - Aggie Football/SFA Basketball
Appreciate the fun banter all year everyone.
Sucks it ended like this, again.
I disagree with your overall sentiment massively. SFA isn't guaranteed post season births just based on our pedigree.
Keller's (almost 70%) winning percentage is outstanding. I suspect he will come back better, next year.
Anyone want to take a chance on going back to the Ned Fowler years. That's what you risk if you let Keller go. 19-13 is a huge disappointment, but what are reasonable expectations. Next year we need to see improvement, at the post season level. For sure. We could take some risks if we had an unlimited budget , like UT or A&M. We don't. Keller can get us back to the top of the mountain. That Duke victory is not that far in the rear view mirror.
Correct, we are not guaranteed anything. But, we're not even putting ourselves in a competitive position to even make the NCAA. That's an issue.
You ask what a "reasonable expectation" is, well, that's it. Not getting one-and-doned.
We can't even get out of the first round.
For as much as we hang on the Duke win as "See, this is how good we could be," we sure do have a lot of losses (like Utah Tech) that scream "see, this is how far away we are."
And that 70% is outstanding...for the regular season.
It has translated into almost nothing in the postseason.
I have heard nothing to not suppor that Keller is a great guy, I'm sure he is.
But, the numbers don't lie.
When it matters most, in the postseason, he/team just are not getting it done.
I'll leave it like this. We are close , very close. Keller isn't perfect, he's got his flaws. I just don't want to take a gamble on a (let's say JUCO all world coach - NMSU) unknown quantity and end up in purgatory for years. The 90's and early 2000's were tough. Really tough. It took Danny Kaspar years to put us back in play and he (Kaspar) never won a NCAA tournament game.
If we let Keller go, a rebuild (that may go nowhere) is at least a 40% chance. Doesn't make sense to me. Statistically, at minimum.
Axe 'Em Jacks - Class of 85'
We did take the same chance on Keller. Remember, he had exactly one head coaching experience before we hired him...in JUCO.BigJack85 said:MasterAxe said:Reasonable opposing viewpoint:BigJack85 said:MasterAxe said:
And another season grinds to an abrupt halt.
We can blame the injuries, the refs, the travel etc…doesn't really matter.
Facts don't lie.
Keller has been here 7 years (5 postseason eligible years)
In those five years: (in no particular order)
One NCAA
Out the SLC 2nd round
Twice out in WAC 1st round
Missed SLC tourney.
Folks, that's bad.
I said in another thread I thought a program goal should be the NCAA tournament each year.
I was told that was probably unrealistic.
Whelp, y'all were right.
New program goal: Win A game in the conference tourney.
I'm trying not to be pessimistic too much, but for all the money/facilities we pound our chest about, and how awesome a recruiter he "allegedly" is…we sure don't have a lot to show for it.
Utah Tech has 18 losses! EIGHTEEN!
Five years, we haven't won any type of post-season game in FIVE years.
That's a bad trend.
Maybe I'm wrong, maybe Keller needs more time.
Is seven years not enough time?
"Next year is our year." - Aggie Football/SFA Basketball
Appreciate the fun banter all year everyone.
Sucks it ended like this, again.
I disagree with your overall sentiment massively. SFA isn't guaranteed post season births just based on our pedigree.
Keller's (almost 70%) winning percentage is outstanding. I suspect he will come back better, next year.
Anyone want to take a chance on going back to the Ned Fowler years. That's what you risk if you let Keller go. 19-13 is a huge disappointment, but what are reasonable expectations. Next year we need to see improvement, at the post season level. For sure. We could take some risks if we had an unlimited budget , like UT or A&M. We don't. Keller can get us back to the top of the mountain. That Duke victory is not that far in the rear view mirror.
Correct, we are not guaranteed anything. But, we're not even putting ourselves in a competitive position to even make the NCAA. That's an issue.
You ask what a "reasonable expectation" is, well, that's it. Not getting one-and-doned.
We can't even get out of the first round.
For as much as we hang on the Duke win as "See, this is how good we could be," we sure do have a lot of losses (like Utah Tech) that scream "see, this is how far away we are."
And that 70% is outstanding...for the regular season.
It has translated into almost nothing in the postseason.
I have heard nothing to not suppor that Keller is a great guy, I'm sure he is.
But, the numbers don't lie.
When it matters most, in the postseason, he/team just are not getting it done.
I'll leave it like this. We are close , very close. Keller isn't perfect, he's got his flaws. I just don't want to take a gamble on a (let's say JUCO all world coach - NMSU) unknown quantity and end up in purgatory for years. The 90's and early 2000's were tough. Really tough. It took Danny Kaspar years to put us back in play and he (Kaspar) never won a NCAA tournament game.
If we let Keller go, a rebuild (that may go nowhere) is at least a 40% chance. Doesn't make sense to me. Statistically, at minimum.
We "gambled" on him, and lots of folks say it has worked out.
You say we are close, close to what? To winning a 1st round game in the WAC? to the NCAA?
I'm not calling for his job, I think he's safe for another year (with a lot of pressure on him).
But, at some point, we have to ask "are we trending in the right direction?"
Because at the current moment...we are not.
Unfortunately, the WAC version of Kyle Keller is quickly turning into the Southland version of Jason Hooten,
I refuse to say we have 19 wins. Three of those wins were against LeTourneau, Paul Quinn, and North American. Those are just games to pad the schedule. Everyone does it but I'm not counting those games.
Idk what y'all think the other option is. Keller's contract runs through 2026.
So this is our reality, like it or not.
Keller is a good coach. He has the potential to be a great coach, but has caught some bad breaks and some self made ones.
But SFA doesn't have the cash to make a change even if y'all want to.
So this is our reality, like it or not.
Keller is a good coach. He has the potential to be a great coach, but has caught some bad breaks and some self made ones.
But SFA doesn't have the cash to make a change even if y'all want to.
MasterAxe said:We did take the same chance on Keller. Remember, he had exactly one head coaching experience before we hired him...in JUCO.BigJack85 said:MasterAxe said:Reasonable opposing viewpoint:BigJack85 said:MasterAxe said:
And another season grinds to an abrupt halt.
We can blame the injuries, the refs, the travel etc…doesn't really matter.
Facts don't lie.
Keller has been here 7 years (5 postseason eligible years)
In those five years: (in no particular order)
One NCAA
Out the SLC 2nd round
Twice out in WAC 1st round
Missed SLC tourney.
Folks, that's bad.
I said in another thread I thought a program goal should be the NCAA tournament each year.
I was told that was probably unrealistic.
Whelp, y'all were right.
New program goal: Win A game in the conference tourney.
I'm trying not to be pessimistic too much, but for all the money/facilities we pound our chest about, and how awesome a recruiter he "allegedly" is…we sure don't have a lot to show for it.
Utah Tech has 18 losses! EIGHTEEN!
Five years, we haven't won any type of post-season game in FIVE years.
That's a bad trend.
Maybe I'm wrong, maybe Keller needs more time.
Is seven years not enough time?
"Next year is our year." - Aggie Football/SFA Basketball
Appreciate the fun banter all year everyone.
Sucks it ended like this, again.
I disagree with your overall sentiment massively. SFA isn't guaranteed post season births just based on our pedigree.
Keller's (almost 70%) winning percentage is outstanding. I suspect he will come back better, next year.
Anyone want to take a chance on going back to the Ned Fowler years. That's what you risk if you let Keller go. 19-13 is a huge disappointment, but what are reasonable expectations. Next year we need to see improvement, at the post season level. For sure. We could take some risks if we had an unlimited budget , like UT or A&M. We don't. Keller can get us back to the top of the mountain. That Duke victory is not that far in the rear view mirror.
Correct, we are not guaranteed anything. But, we're not even putting ourselves in a competitive position to even make the NCAA. That's an issue.
You ask what a "reasonable expectation" is, well, that's it. Not getting one-and-doned.
We can't even get out of the first round.
For as much as we hang on the Duke win as "See, this is how good we could be," we sure do have a lot of losses (like Utah Tech) that scream "see, this is how far away we are."
And that 70% is outstanding...for the regular season.
It has translated into almost nothing in the postseason.
I have heard nothing to not suppor that Keller is a great guy, I'm sure he is.
But, the numbers don't lie.
When it matters most, in the postseason, he/team just are not getting it done.
I'll leave it like this. We are close , very close. Keller isn't perfect, he's got his flaws. I just don't want to take a gamble on a (let's say JUCO all world coach - NMSU) unknown quantity and end up in purgatory for years. The 90's and early 2000's were tough. Really tough. It took Danny Kaspar years to put us back in play and he (Kaspar) never won a NCAA tournament game.
If we let Keller go, a rebuild (that may go nowhere) is at least a 40% chance. Doesn't make sense to me. Statistically, at minimum.
We "gambled" on him, and lots of folks say it has worked out.
You say we are close, close to what? To winning a 1st round game in the WAC? to the NCAA?
I'm not calling for his job, I think he's safe for another year (with a lot of pressure on him).
But, at some point, we have to ask "are we trending in the right direction?"
Because at the current moment...we are not.
Unfortunately, the WAC version of Kyle Keller is quickly turning into the Southland version of Jason Hooten,
6 out 7 winning seasons. Going into the coaching market right now OR next year you'd be lucky to find a coach of his caliber. More than 1/2 of new coaches at our level (mid major) fail. And fail miserably. If you want to lead charge for new coaching talent, have at it. I'll be lobbying for staying the course with a proven winner
Anyone remember John Pearce in SFA football? Pearce inherited a crap hole. Had 5 straight winning seasons. He had one stinker, they fired him. That was 1998. We didn't make it back to the post season till 2009.
Axe 'Em Jacks - Class of 85'
It doesn't really matter, as was stated earlier, his contract locks him in for another couple of years.BigJack85 said:MasterAxe said:We did take the same chance on Keller. Remember, he had exactly one head coaching experience before we hired him...in JUCO.BigJack85 said:MasterAxe said:Reasonable opposing viewpoint:BigJack85 said:MasterAxe said:
And another season grinds to an abrupt halt.
We can blame the injuries, the refs, the travel etc…doesn't really matter.
Facts don't lie.
Keller has been here 7 years (5 postseason eligible years)
In those five years: (in no particular order)
One NCAA
Out the SLC 2nd round
Twice out in WAC 1st round
Missed SLC tourney.
Folks, that's bad.
I said in another thread I thought a program goal should be the NCAA tournament each year.
I was told that was probably unrealistic.
Whelp, y'all were right.
New program goal: Win A game in the conference tourney.
I'm trying not to be pessimistic too much, but for all the money/facilities we pound our chest about, and how awesome a recruiter he "allegedly" is…we sure don't have a lot to show for it.
Utah Tech has 18 losses! EIGHTEEN!
Five years, we haven't won any type of post-season game in FIVE years.
That's a bad trend.
Maybe I'm wrong, maybe Keller needs more time.
Is seven years not enough time?
"Next year is our year." - Aggie Football/SFA Basketball
Appreciate the fun banter all year everyone.
Sucks it ended like this, again.
I disagree with your overall sentiment massively. SFA isn't guaranteed post season births just based on our pedigree.
Keller's (almost 70%) winning percentage is outstanding. I suspect he will come back better, next year.
Anyone want to take a chance on going back to the Ned Fowler years. That's what you risk if you let Keller go. 19-13 is a huge disappointment, but what are reasonable expectations. Next year we need to see improvement, at the post season level. For sure. We could take some risks if we had an unlimited budget , like UT or A&M. We don't. Keller can get us back to the top of the mountain. That Duke victory is not that far in the rear view mirror.
Correct, we are not guaranteed anything. But, we're not even putting ourselves in a competitive position to even make the NCAA. That's an issue.
You ask what a "reasonable expectation" is, well, that's it. Not getting one-and-doned.
We can't even get out of the first round.
For as much as we hang on the Duke win as "See, this is how good we could be," we sure do have a lot of losses (like Utah Tech) that scream "see, this is how far away we are."
And that 70% is outstanding...for the regular season.
It has translated into almost nothing in the postseason.
I have heard nothing to not suppor that Keller is a great guy, I'm sure he is.
But, the numbers don't lie.
When it matters most, in the postseason, he/team just are not getting it done.
I'll leave it like this. We are close , very close. Keller isn't perfect, he's got his flaws. I just don't want to take a gamble on a (let's say JUCO all world coach - NMSU) unknown quantity and end up in purgatory for years. The 90's and early 2000's were tough. Really tough. It took Danny Kaspar years to put us back in play and he (Kaspar) never won a NCAA tournament game.
If we let Keller go, a rebuild (that may go nowhere) is at least a 40% chance. Doesn't make sense to me. Statistically, at minimum.
We "gambled" on him, and lots of folks say it has worked out.
You say we are close, close to what? To winning a 1st round game in the WAC? to the NCAA?
I'm not calling for his job, I think he's safe for another year (with a lot of pressure on him).
But, at some point, we have to ask "are we trending in the right direction?"
Because at the current moment...we are not.
Unfortunately, the WAC version of Kyle Keller is quickly turning into the Southland version of Jason Hooten,
6 out 7 winning seasons. Going into the coaching market right now OR next year you'd be lucky to find a coach of his caliber. More than 1/2 of new coaches at our level (mid major) fail. And fail miserably. If you want to lead charge for new coaching talent, have at it. I'll be lobbying for staying the course with a proven winner
Anyone remember John Pearce in SFA football? Pearce inherited a crap hole. Had 5 straight winning seasons. He had one stinker, they fired him. That was 1998. We didn't make it back to the post season till 2009.
But, what exactly is "his caliber?"
You are a correct in that he is a proven winner...but, that comes with a caveat of being a regular season winner.
Because, right now, he's a coach that can't win a postseason game.
That's not an opinion, that's a fact.
MasterAxe said:It doesn't really matter, as was stated earlier, his contract locks him in for another couple of years.BigJack85 said:MasterAxe said:We did take the same chance on Keller. Remember, he had exactly one head coaching experience before we hired him...in JUCO.BigJack85 said:MasterAxe said:Reasonable opposing viewpoint:BigJack85 said:MasterAxe said:
And another season grinds to an abrupt halt.
We can blame the injuries, the refs, the travel etc…doesn't really matter.
Facts don't lie.
Keller has been here 7 years (5 postseason eligible years)
In those five years: (in no particular order)
One NCAA
Out the SLC 2nd round
Twice out in WAC 1st round
Missed SLC tourney.
Folks, that's bad.
I said in another thread I thought a program goal should be the NCAA tournament each year.
I was told that was probably unrealistic.
Whelp, y'all were right.
New program goal: Win A game in the conference tourney.
I'm trying not to be pessimistic too much, but for all the money/facilities we pound our chest about, and how awesome a recruiter he "allegedly" is…we sure don't have a lot to show for it.
Utah Tech has 18 losses! EIGHTEEN!
Five years, we haven't won any type of post-season game in FIVE years.
That's a bad trend.
Maybe I'm wrong, maybe Keller needs more time.
Is seven years not enough time?
"Next year is our year." - Aggie Football/SFA Basketball
Appreciate the fun banter all year everyone.
Sucks it ended like this, again.
I disagree with your overall sentiment massively. SFA isn't guaranteed post season births just based on our pedigree.
Keller's (almost 70%) winning percentage is outstanding. I suspect he will come back better, next year.
Anyone want to take a chance on going back to the Ned Fowler years. That's what you risk if you let Keller go. 19-13 is a huge disappointment, but what are reasonable expectations. Next year we need to see improvement, at the post season level. For sure. We could take some risks if we had an unlimited budget , like UT or A&M. We don't. Keller can get us back to the top of the mountain. That Duke victory is not that far in the rear view mirror.
Correct, we are not guaranteed anything. But, we're not even putting ourselves in a competitive position to even make the NCAA. That's an issue.
You ask what a "reasonable expectation" is, well, that's it. Not getting one-and-doned.
We can't even get out of the first round.
For as much as we hang on the Duke win as "See, this is how good we could be," we sure do have a lot of losses (like Utah Tech) that scream "see, this is how far away we are."
And that 70% is outstanding...for the regular season.
It has translated into almost nothing in the postseason.
I have heard nothing to not suppor that Keller is a great guy, I'm sure he is.
But, the numbers don't lie.
When it matters most, in the postseason, he/team just are not getting it done.
I'll leave it like this. We are close , very close. Keller isn't perfect, he's got his flaws. I just don't want to take a gamble on a (let's say JUCO all world coach - NMSU) unknown quantity and end up in purgatory for years. The 90's and early 2000's were tough. Really tough. It took Danny Kaspar years to put us back in play and he (Kaspar) never won a NCAA tournament game.
If we let Keller go, a rebuild (that may go nowhere) is at least a 40% chance. Doesn't make sense to me. Statistically, at minimum.
We "gambled" on him, and lots of folks say it has worked out.
You say we are close, close to what? To winning a 1st round game in the WAC? to the NCAA?
I'm not calling for his job, I think he's safe for another year (with a lot of pressure on him).
But, at some point, we have to ask "are we trending in the right direction?"
Because at the current moment...we are not.
Unfortunately, the WAC version of Kyle Keller is quickly turning into the Southland version of Jason Hooten,
6 out 7 winning seasons. Going into the coaching market right now OR next year you'd be lucky to find a coach of his caliber. More than 1/2 of new coaches at our level (mid major) fail. And fail miserably. If you want to lead charge for new coaching talent, have at it. I'll be lobbying for staying the course with a proven winner
Anyone remember John Pearce in SFA football? Pearce inherited a crap hole. Had 5 straight winning seasons. He had one stinker, they fired him. That was 1998. We didn't make it back to the post season till 2009.
But, what exactly is "his caliber?"
You are a correct in that he is a proven winner...but, that comes with a caveat of being a regular season winner.
Because, right now, he's a coach that can't win a postseason game.
That's not an opinion, that's a fact.
Debbie Humphreys had losing seasons 3 out of her first 7. Give it some time. Keller's a good coach. If we fire him, we will all regret it. That's a guarantee.
Axe 'Em Jacks - Class of 85'
I hope you are right, i really do.BigJack85 said:MasterAxe said:It doesn't really matter, as was stated earlier, his contract locks him in for another couple of years.BigJack85 said:MasterAxe said:We did take the same chance on Keller. Remember, he had exactly one head coaching experience before we hired him...in JUCO.BigJack85 said:MasterAxe said:Reasonable opposing viewpoint:BigJack85 said:MasterAxe said:
And another season grinds to an abrupt halt.
We can blame the injuries, the refs, the travel etc…doesn't really matter.
Facts don't lie.
Keller has been here 7 years (5 postseason eligible years)
In those five years: (in no particular order)
One NCAA
Out the SLC 2nd round
Twice out in WAC 1st round
Missed SLC tourney.
Folks, that's bad.
I said in another thread I thought a program goal should be the NCAA tournament each year.
I was told that was probably unrealistic.
Whelp, y'all were right.
New program goal: Win A game in the conference tourney.
I'm trying not to be pessimistic too much, but for all the money/facilities we pound our chest about, and how awesome a recruiter he "allegedly" is…we sure don't have a lot to show for it.
Utah Tech has 18 losses! EIGHTEEN!
Five years, we haven't won any type of post-season game in FIVE years.
That's a bad trend.
Maybe I'm wrong, maybe Keller needs more time.
Is seven years not enough time?
"Next year is our year." - Aggie Football/SFA Basketball
Appreciate the fun banter all year everyone.
Sucks it ended like this, again.
I disagree with your overall sentiment massively. SFA isn't guaranteed post season births just based on our pedigree.
Keller's (almost 70%) winning percentage is outstanding. I suspect he will come back better, next year.
Anyone want to take a chance on going back to the Ned Fowler years. That's what you risk if you let Keller go. 19-13 is a huge disappointment, but what are reasonable expectations. Next year we need to see improvement, at the post season level. For sure. We could take some risks if we had an unlimited budget , like UT or A&M. We don't. Keller can get us back to the top of the mountain. That Duke victory is not that far in the rear view mirror.
Correct, we are not guaranteed anything. But, we're not even putting ourselves in a competitive position to even make the NCAA. That's an issue.
You ask what a "reasonable expectation" is, well, that's it. Not getting one-and-doned.
We can't even get out of the first round.
For as much as we hang on the Duke win as "See, this is how good we could be," we sure do have a lot of losses (like Utah Tech) that scream "see, this is how far away we are."
And that 70% is outstanding...for the regular season.
It has translated into almost nothing in the postseason.
I have heard nothing to not suppor that Keller is a great guy, I'm sure he is.
But, the numbers don't lie.
When it matters most, in the postseason, he/team just are not getting it done.
I'll leave it like this. We are close , very close. Keller isn't perfect, he's got his flaws. I just don't want to take a gamble on a (let's say JUCO all world coach - NMSU) unknown quantity and end up in purgatory for years. The 90's and early 2000's were tough. Really tough. It took Danny Kaspar years to put us back in play and he (Kaspar) never won a NCAA tournament game.
If we let Keller go, a rebuild (that may go nowhere) is at least a 40% chance. Doesn't make sense to me. Statistically, at minimum.
We "gambled" on him, and lots of folks say it has worked out.
You say we are close, close to what? To winning a 1st round game in the WAC? to the NCAA?
I'm not calling for his job, I think he's safe for another year (with a lot of pressure on him).
But, at some point, we have to ask "are we trending in the right direction?"
Because at the current moment...we are not.
Unfortunately, the WAC version of Kyle Keller is quickly turning into the Southland version of Jason Hooten,
6 out 7 winning seasons. Going into the coaching market right now OR next year you'd be lucky to find a coach of his caliber. More than 1/2 of new coaches at our level (mid major) fail. And fail miserably. If you want to lead charge for new coaching talent, have at it. I'll be lobbying for staying the course with a proven winner
Anyone remember John Pearce in SFA football? Pearce inherited a crap hole. Had 5 straight winning seasons. He had one stinker, they fired him. That was 1998. We didn't make it back to the post season till 2009.
But, what exactly is "his caliber?"
You are a correct in that he is a proven winner...but, that comes with a caveat of being a regular season winner.
Because, right now, he's a coach that can't win a postseason game.
That's not an opinion, that's a fact.
Debbie Humphreys had losing seasons 3 out of her first 7. Give it some time. Keller's a good coach. If we fire him, we will all regret it. That's a guarantee.
I want him to be good, I want him to succeed. But what my eyes tell me is something different (at least recently).
Debbie is a good comp, as it now sets an expectation for Keller.
In her 7th-12th seasons, she finished in the top two of the conference every year, with three NCAA tournament trips and an NIVC trip.
So, there you go.
MasterAxe said:I hope you are right, i really do.BigJack85 said:MasterAxe said:It doesn't really matter, as was stated earlier, his contract locks him in for another couple of years.BigJack85 said:MasterAxe said:We did take the same chance on Keller. Remember, he had exactly one head coaching experience before we hired him...in JUCO.BigJack85 said:MasterAxe said:Reasonable opposing viewpoint:BigJack85 said:MasterAxe said:
And another season grinds to an abrupt halt.
We can blame the injuries, the refs, the travel etc…doesn't really matter.
Facts don't lie.
Keller has been here 7 years (5 postseason eligible years)
In those five years: (in no particular order)
One NCAA
Out the SLC 2nd round
Twice out in WAC 1st round
Missed SLC tourney.
Folks, that's bad.
I said in another thread I thought a program goal should be the NCAA tournament each year.
I was told that was probably unrealistic.
Whelp, y'all were right.
New program goal: Win A game in the conference tourney.
I'm trying not to be pessimistic too much, but for all the money/facilities we pound our chest about, and how awesome a recruiter he "allegedly" is…we sure don't have a lot to show for it.
Utah Tech has 18 losses! EIGHTEEN!
Five years, we haven't won any type of post-season game in FIVE years.
That's a bad trend.
Maybe I'm wrong, maybe Keller needs more time.
Is seven years not enough time?
"Next year is our year." - Aggie Football/SFA Basketball
Appreciate the fun banter all year everyone.
Sucks it ended like this, again.
I disagree with your overall sentiment massively. SFA isn't guaranteed post season births just based on our pedigree.
Keller's (almost 70%) winning percentage is outstanding. I suspect he will come back better, next year.
Anyone want to take a chance on going back to the Ned Fowler years. That's what you risk if you let Keller go. 19-13 is a huge disappointment, but what are reasonable expectations. Next year we need to see improvement, at the post season level. For sure. We could take some risks if we had an unlimited budget , like UT or A&M. We don't. Keller can get us back to the top of the mountain. That Duke victory is not that far in the rear view mirror.
Correct, we are not guaranteed anything. But, we're not even putting ourselves in a competitive position to even make the NCAA. That's an issue.
You ask what a "reasonable expectation" is, well, that's it. Not getting one-and-doned.
We can't even get out of the first round.
For as much as we hang on the Duke win as "See, this is how good we could be," we sure do have a lot of losses (like Utah Tech) that scream "see, this is how far away we are."
And that 70% is outstanding...for the regular season.
It has translated into almost nothing in the postseason.
I have heard nothing to not suppor that Keller is a great guy, I'm sure he is.
But, the numbers don't lie.
When it matters most, in the postseason, he/team just are not getting it done.
I'll leave it like this. We are close , very close. Keller isn't perfect, he's got his flaws. I just don't want to take a gamble on a (let's say JUCO all world coach - NMSU) unknown quantity and end up in purgatory for years. The 90's and early 2000's were tough. Really tough. It took Danny Kaspar years to put us back in play and he (Kaspar) never won a NCAA tournament game.
If we let Keller go, a rebuild (that may go nowhere) is at least a 40% chance. Doesn't make sense to me. Statistically, at minimum.
We "gambled" on him, and lots of folks say it has worked out.
You say we are close, close to what? To winning a 1st round game in the WAC? to the NCAA?
I'm not calling for his job, I think he's safe for another year (with a lot of pressure on him).
But, at some point, we have to ask "are we trending in the right direction?"
Because at the current moment...we are not.
Unfortunately, the WAC version of Kyle Keller is quickly turning into the Southland version of Jason Hooten,
6 out 7 winning seasons. Going into the coaching market right now OR next year you'd be lucky to find a coach of his caliber. More than 1/2 of new coaches at our level (mid major) fail. And fail miserably. If you want to lead charge for new coaching talent, have at it. I'll be lobbying for staying the course with a proven winner
Anyone remember John Pearce in SFA football? Pearce inherited a crap hole. Had 5 straight winning seasons. He had one stinker, they fired him. That was 1998. We didn't make it back to the post season till 2009.
But, what exactly is "his caliber?"
You are a correct in that he is a proven winner...but, that comes with a caveat of being a regular season winner.
Because, right now, he's a coach that can't win a postseason game.
That's not an opinion, that's a fact.
Debbie Humphreys had losing seasons 3 out of her first 7. Give it some time. Keller's a good coach. If we fire him, we will all regret it. That's a guarantee.
Debbie is a good comp, as it now sets an expectation for Keller.
In her 7th-12th seasons, she finished in the top two of the conference every year, with three NCAA tournament trips and an NIVC trip.
So, there you go.
I'd love for Keller to be a Debbie Humphreys. That's what Ivey seems to be building to. Long-term (sustained) success is what we need. Humphreys, Kellogg, Carthel (getting there) Olson, Keller?
Axe 'Em Jacks - Class of 85'
First step...not being a MASH unit in basketball.BigJack85 said:MasterAxe said:I hope you are right, i really do.BigJack85 said:MasterAxe said:It doesn't really matter, as was stated earlier, his contract locks him in for another couple of years.BigJack85 said:MasterAxe said:We did take the same chance on Keller. Remember, he had exactly one head coaching experience before we hired him...in JUCO.BigJack85 said:MasterAxe said:Reasonable opposing viewpoint:BigJack85 said:MasterAxe said:
And another season grinds to an abrupt halt.
We can blame the injuries, the refs, the travel etc…doesn't really matter.
Facts don't lie.
Keller has been here 7 years (5 postseason eligible years)
In those five years: (in no particular order)
One NCAA
Out the SLC 2nd round
Twice out in WAC 1st round
Missed SLC tourney.
Folks, that's bad.
I said in another thread I thought a program goal should be the NCAA tournament each year.
I was told that was probably unrealistic.
Whelp, y'all were right.
New program goal: Win A game in the conference tourney.
I'm trying not to be pessimistic too much, but for all the money/facilities we pound our chest about, and how awesome a recruiter he "allegedly" is…we sure don't have a lot to show for it.
Utah Tech has 18 losses! EIGHTEEN!
Five years, we haven't won any type of post-season game in FIVE years.
That's a bad trend.
Maybe I'm wrong, maybe Keller needs more time.
Is seven years not enough time?
"Next year is our year." - Aggie Football/SFA Basketball
Appreciate the fun banter all year everyone.
Sucks it ended like this, again.
I disagree with your overall sentiment massively. SFA isn't guaranteed post season births just based on our pedigree.
Keller's (almost 70%) winning percentage is outstanding. I suspect he will come back better, next year.
Anyone want to take a chance on going back to the Ned Fowler years. That's what you risk if you let Keller go. 19-13 is a huge disappointment, but what are reasonable expectations. Next year we need to see improvement, at the post season level. For sure. We could take some risks if we had an unlimited budget , like UT or A&M. We don't. Keller can get us back to the top of the mountain. That Duke victory is not that far in the rear view mirror.
Correct, we are not guaranteed anything. But, we're not even putting ourselves in a competitive position to even make the NCAA. That's an issue.
You ask what a "reasonable expectation" is, well, that's it. Not getting one-and-doned.
We can't even get out of the first round.
For as much as we hang on the Duke win as "See, this is how good we could be," we sure do have a lot of losses (like Utah Tech) that scream "see, this is how far away we are."
And that 70% is outstanding...for the regular season.
It has translated into almost nothing in the postseason.
I have heard nothing to not suppor that Keller is a great guy, I'm sure he is.
But, the numbers don't lie.
When it matters most, in the postseason, he/team just are not getting it done.
I'll leave it like this. We are close , very close. Keller isn't perfect, he's got his flaws. I just don't want to take a gamble on a (let's say JUCO all world coach - NMSU) unknown quantity and end up in purgatory for years. The 90's and early 2000's were tough. Really tough. It took Danny Kaspar years to put us back in play and he (Kaspar) never won a NCAA tournament game.
If we let Keller go, a rebuild (that may go nowhere) is at least a 40% chance. Doesn't make sense to me. Statistically, at minimum.
We "gambled" on him, and lots of folks say it has worked out.
You say we are close, close to what? To winning a 1st round game in the WAC? to the NCAA?
I'm not calling for his job, I think he's safe for another year (with a lot of pressure on him).
But, at some point, we have to ask "are we trending in the right direction?"
Because at the current moment...we are not.
Unfortunately, the WAC version of Kyle Keller is quickly turning into the Southland version of Jason Hooten,
6 out 7 winning seasons. Going into the coaching market right now OR next year you'd be lucky to find a coach of his caliber. More than 1/2 of new coaches at our level (mid major) fail. And fail miserably. If you want to lead charge for new coaching talent, have at it. I'll be lobbying for staying the course with a proven winner
Anyone remember John Pearce in SFA football? Pearce inherited a crap hole. Had 5 straight winning seasons. He had one stinker, they fired him. That was 1998. We didn't make it back to the post season till 2009.
But, what exactly is "his caliber?"
You are a correct in that he is a proven winner...but, that comes with a caveat of being a regular season winner.
Because, right now, he's a coach that can't win a postseason game.
That's not an opinion, that's a fact.
Debbie Humphreys had losing seasons 3 out of her first 7. Give it some time. Keller's a good coach. If we fire him, we will all regret it. That's a guarantee.
Debbie is a good comp, as it now sets an expectation for Keller.
In her 7th-12th seasons, she finished in the top two of the conference every year, with three NCAA tournament trips and an NIVC trip.
So, there you go.
I'd love for Keller to be a Debbie Humphreys. That's what Ivey seems to be building to. Long-term (sustained) success is what we need. Humphreys, Kellogg, Carthel (getting there) Olson, Keller?
Second step...crush the transfer portal. Has to be some big men who can play lingering out there.
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