I know this might be an unpopular topic because of how much everyone loves Johnny Cardenas.
He's basically the only real baseball coach SFA has had. But how much longer does he have? In his many years, he has produced 3 above .500 seasons, and only 2 top 5 regular season finishes in the conference.
Everyone likes to talk about how good we were midway through this season and you know what, we were, we were offensively and defensively a dominant team.
But that's nothing really new. SFA baseball always has spurts of greatness followed by longer periods of very poor play.
Baseball is a very hard sport to judge, but at what point do we start looking for more consistent success in this sport?
I give Clint Conque and Kyle Keller passes for disappointing seasons because they haven't had sufficient time to really make the teams their own. Kyle completely reshaped the program and Clint will finally have a team that is comprised completely of his players.
Johnny Cardenas has had a lot of time to put together good teams.
I actually think he's recruited phenomenally. We have talent.
So why aren't we winning consistently?

I don't follow baseball like I do football or basketball so my comments should be taken with a grain of salt. A few things work against Cardenas....

1. Average facilities. We've had this conversation before but being off campus is a negative overall. The field may be nice but the overall baseball feel is average at best.

2. Depth at pitcher. We seem to lack depth in both the starting rotation and bull pen. This has been consistent over the past 8 - 10 years. I relate this to recruiting which is related to facilities.

3. We are in a conference that Sammie and Texas St. dominated for years. We need a couple of break out seasons to buck the trend. That combined with some facility improvements.

My two cents..... nothing more.

BigJack85 said:

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1. Average facilities. We've had this conversation before but being off campus is a negative overall. The field may be nice but the overall baseball feel is average at best.

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I'm sure a new stadium may have been in the plans...you know....if our students didn't suck.

Actually, it was our admin that sucked on this one.

When I was at SFA, 2009-2011, I knew quite a few of the baseball guys. According to them, SFA was recruiting based on getting a new on campus stadium. They had a plan to put it where the Charter School is. Someone at the top decided that instead of a new stadium on campus, we needed to put the charter school there.

Not sure if it was ultimately the right or wrong decision, telling recruits was definitely wrong, but that's apparently what happened to the idea of an on campus stadium.

I think we're losing about 14 seniors, so I can't see much improvement next year, unless a lot of good JUCO'S come in. Cardenas and his staff will have their work cut out for them on the recruiting trail, mostly due to the reasons mentioned previously.

And of course, to add insult to injury, Prison Tech is going to the NCAA's again.

So does that give Cardenas and his staff a pass if the team struggles again next year?
Like I said, he's a great recruiter, but his entire tenure at SFA has been less than impressive, considering he's had really impressive talent.

My two cents: We are recruiting against pretty much everyone in the Southland that has better facilities than we do. I think Johnny gets a lot out of what he can successfully recruit. If you want better players, you've got to show them a better place to play, practice and prepare.

Seems he can get some guys with good sticks but he needs some arms, he gets some pitching and cures a lot of things. I'm sure if there was an on campus stadium that that might sway some recruits, but any baseball team with a lack of pitching is gonna struggle, the bats will only carry you so far.

Willis Jack said:

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Seems he can get some guys with good sticks but he needs some arms, he gets some pitching and cures a lot of things. I'm sure if there was an on campus stadium that that might sway some recruits, but any baseball team with a lack of pitching is gonna struggle, the bats will only carry you so far.

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Good point. Also, a lot of recruiting success -- or failure -- comes from a program's history. Kids want to go to a program that has won in the recent past. Just look at why MBB recruits so well. It's SFA's history of going to the Big Dance and performing well once there. Unfortunately, Prison Tech has gone to the NCAA's in baseball multiple times, while SFA never has.

I think he is what SFA needs. That isn't to say he is perfect, but considering the resources, he does a fantastic job. You would be hard pressed to find someone come in and work with what he does and field a capable team.

Now, I think he does need to adjust his staff (Pitching coach), but getting rid of him would be a HUGE mistake IMO.

Give him all the time he needs. Give him the facilities he needs. If we can upgrade, and results still suffer, then we can discuss dropping him. Until then, be grateful for what we have...I could be much, much worse...

Unfortunately the information you were given is not at all accurate, other than SFA was trying to get a new stadium for baseball at that time. I can't speak to the recruiting at that time, but the location you mention and a decision of charter school vs. baseball stadium is 100% not true.

Richard B said:

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Unfortunately the information you were given is not at all accurate, other than SFA was trying to get a new stadium for baseball at that time. I can't speak to the recruiting at that time, but the location you mention and a decision of charter school vs. baseball stadium is 100% not true.

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That was the info given to me by the baseball players I knew, who weren't happy with the bait and switch they had been given.

The stadium plans look awesome though, I did some research and found the proposed location was at the corner of Starr & University.

http://www.sfajacks.com/facilities/bo-pilgrim-park.html

Staff changes...

http://sfajacks.com/news/2017/7/11/baseball-announces-staffing-changes.aspx

Per our earlier conversations on Pilgrim park, just learned that Bo Pilgrim passed away at 89. http://www.easttexasmatters.com/news/top-stories/legendary-east-texas-businessman-bo-pilgrim-dies/771903554?utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook_KETK_NBC

SFAJack_76 said:

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Seems appropriate to bump this thread. Not only has the season started 0-5, it is an ugly 0-5. Team ERA of 8.18. #2 in the country in hit batters. Batting near the bottom with a .243 average. It is a long season, but this is so bad.

I agree that Cardenas is hamstrung by average facilities at a city little league park. I have mentioned elsewhere how I feel about Pattillo and others not aggressively pursuing what would have been a great, on campus, baseball and softball complex. I think the contract for Jaycee field was for twenty years.

However, is this really it? Hope to make the conference tournament on occasion? Should we continue to put money into a sport if mediocre is the expectation? Either commit to having a respectable program or drop it and add men's soccer and/or tennis.

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Yes Indeed why keep throwing $$ at a program that plays at a city little league complex.. On campus stadiums would be so so so nice but I doubt that will happen... The thing to do is partner with the county and or city and build a stadium that both can use on campus. Maybe even make it a three way partnership with Nacogdoches ISD.. Use the facility for all kinds of Playoff games, travel ball tournaments,etc.. Baseball and Softball select tourneys bring in people from everywhere for 2-3 days.. Those people will stay in hotels and eat in Nacogdoches resturants and on and on.. I just dont see how coach can be blamed for a mediocre team because he is working with very little to begin with.. I wonder how many full scholarships the baseball team can even offer? I have 0 experience on being an AD but I promise one thing I would be able to find a way to make things work amongst the city,county,and university.. I would be a great AD... I have ran a sucessful automobile dealership along with owning food franchise stores.. I have sold everything and I am ready for Dr. Pattillo to call..

11.7 scholarships per team.

Quote:

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There are approximately 299 NCAA Division I baseball programs with each team being allowed to offer a maximum of (11.7) scholarships. Under NCAA rules, these 11.7 scholarships can be divided between a maximum of 27 players, with all players on athletic scholarship having to receive a minimum of a 25% scholarship.

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Honestly, IMO, if we're not going to provide the facilities, we might as well not even field the sport. My lone hope for our baseball program is that Hunter Dozier gets one of those awesome MLB superstar contracts one day & builds an on-campus park for us.

TallTexan said:

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Honestly, IMO, if we're not going to provide the facilities, we might as well not even field the sport.

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It pains me to say this, but I agree.

edstile said:

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TallTexan said:

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Honestly, IMO, if we're not going to provide the facilities, we might as well not even field the sport.

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It pains me to say this, but I agree.

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Yep.

I hate to say this as well but the smart move would be to drop football abd try to be great at baseball and basketball like Wichita State and a few others have done. We spend a lot of money being bad at football and even when we are good, no one shows up.

I love football as much as the next guy, but wouldn't you trade it for a chance to be top-25 at the other two?

I know it will never happen, but it would be the smart move.

Sully said:

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edstile said:

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TallTexan said:

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Honestly, IMO, if we're not going to provide the facilities, we might as well not even field the sport.

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It pains me to say this, but I agree.

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Yep.

I hate to say this as well but the smart move would be to drop football abd try to be great at baseball and basketball like Wichita State and a few others have done. We spend a lot of money being bad at football and even when we are good, no one shows up.

I love football as much as the next guy, but wouldn't you trade it for a chance to be top-25 at the other two?

I know it will never happen, but it would be the smart move.

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Sully,

I tend to agree with you. We could be REALLY GOOD at baseball, basketball and men's soccer with money left over for the cost of a 1aa football squad that will never garner national attention. Frankly most fans (unknowingly) regard 1aa as Div2.

This conversation has come up a few times, so I created a thread on the general discussion so we can go hog wild on which sports SFA should sponsor:

Which Sports should SFA sponsor?

I tend to agree with you guys. I think on-campus baseball would add a lot to the campus atmosphere, but not sure the point otherwise.

Necessary bump*

While I'm not 100% sure he is what we need, you will be hard pressed to find a better coach given the current state of our program. To call our facilities sub-par would be an improvement. Our history? Outside of Hunter Dozier, what history? This isn't exactly a program with a lot of prestige to it, and needs improvement everywhere, coaching included. My question is, where do you find a better coach that is willing to walk into this situation?

Cardenas on the other hand bleeds purple, and is one of the most supportive people of the university as a whole. While the results aren't what we want/expect, I think it will be hard to find someone that can perform better than Johnny has. He is already significantly better than Donnie Watson was...

cboothe09 said:

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While I'm not 100% sure he is what we need, you will be hard pressed to find a better coach given the current state of our program. To call our facilities sub-par would be an improvement. Our history? Outside of Hunter Dozier, what history? This isn't exactly a program with a lot of prestige to it, and needs improvement everywhere, coaching included. My question is, where do you find a better coach that is willing to walk into this situation?

Cardenas on the other hand bleeds purple, and is one of the most supportive people of the university as a whole. While the results aren't what we want/expect, I think it will be hard to find someone that can perform better than Johnny has. He is already significantly better than Donnie Watson was...

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If you accept Watson's side to the story, he was hired to restart the program with the expectation that the issues you appropriately raise would be addressed. I certainly don't know, but if they were not going to support baseball, why restart it? As you said, SFA has never had a good baseball program.

The new AD and the administration need to commit to having a competitive baseball program or drop it. I really hope they see value and lay out a plan for success.

You prompted me to check on Dozier. He is playing at AAA Omaha. Probably not the progression KC envisioned when they took him 8th in the 2013 draft. Batting .261 for his minor league career. He got in 8 games with KC in 2016.

PurpleOut said:

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cboothe09 said:

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While I'm not 100% sure he is what we need, you will be hard pressed to find a better coach given the current state of our program. To call our facilities sub-par would be an improvement. Our history? Outside of Hunter Dozier, what history? This isn't exactly a program with a lot of prestige to it, and needs improvement everywhere, coaching included. My question is, where do you find a better coach that is willing to walk into this situation?

Cardenas on the other hand bleeds purple, and is one of the most supportive people of the university as a whole. While the results aren't what we want/expect, I think it will be hard to find someone that can perform better than Johnny has. He is already significantly better than Donnie Watson was...

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I agree with what you're saying, I love Cardenas. But we don't think we can find someone that can do better? What's worse than constantly losing? We're 11-20 and 4-8 in conference, and have been been above .500 once (by one game) in the last 5-6 years or whatever. What are we hanging on to? I can find a TON of people that I would give a shot to if it gave us a better chance to win. Sorry, but Johnny isn't doing that.

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Apparently, this illustrious team won like 2 games one year, so it could always be worse. But I agree, there are a lot of JUCO, DII, assistants who might be willing to give it a shot & it'd be hard to be worse than not winning.

On the other hand, the only hope I see for SFA baseball is Dozier turning it around, signing a big contract in the MLB, & then donating some moolah for Dozier Baseballl & Softball complex on campus.

Most of the commentary on here is right on target. I suspect that Cardenas is milking everything he can out of this. Without a significant on campus facility we are going nowhere. One estimate I saw in an article related to the athletics fee said that we need $10 million in updates and new facilities over the 4-5 years to keep up.

I am interested in seeing what they say at the BOR meeting coming up here really soon.. A report is suppose to be presented to the Board.. Some improvements could start immediately...Cross your fingers...