The calls under the basket are night and day on opposite ends of the court. It's really confusing.
ACU
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Last: 7 yr ago by nacluth
PurpleOut
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I desparately want Keller to get some upside at some point, but we won't beat anyone playing this poorly. ACU was not even playing their best game.
Face it. We hired a recruiter. Not a coach. Gonna be hard to watch the rest of this.
Keller DID recruit most of this team. Remember he ran off 3 or 4 last spring. I still contend we have not improved much since Kentucky.
top 100 team to bottom 50. At least the "prediction game" is going to be interesting this season. we are bad, really bad. No doubt about that now. Shocked, didn't see this coming. Still hoping we can turn things around but the realist in me says we wont. sigh, not angry just disappointed. 14 loses in 3 season and we already have 9. finishing 500 is the goal this season.
No I think this screwup gets put on the AD. It's looking more and more like there was a reason that A&M only made 1 tourney in 5 years.
This is a step down from Kasper ball.
This is a step down from Kasper ball.
PurpleOut
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5 of the recruits are Kellers. But you're talking about having to start a recruiting class 6 months before the season starts. And arguably his best recruit didn't even make it here. I know everyone here can do better, but come on guys. He deserves some fault for sure, he'll tell you that. But to throw in the towel on him AND this season this fast is insanity.W1964 said:
Keller DID recruit most of this team. Remember he ran off 3 or 4 last spring. I still contend we have not improved much since Kentucky.
To me, I feel it's more about the fact that he seemed to be the wrong hire in the first place. I think everyone here is hoping for improvement, but we're just being realistic about many of the fears that were shared when his name was first mentioned for the job.
I want the team to play better because he's our coach and I think he's a nice guy, but if it seems obvious he's not the right fit, how many years should we wait to find out?
I want the team to play better because he's our coach and I think he's a nice guy, but if it seems obvious he's not the right fit, how many years should we wait to find out?
I agree with PurpleOut, we have to give him time. Its not like we have a choice. He could lose the rest of his game this season and he would still be our coach next season. I know he wont but just saying. but i also under the frustration we are playing in the Southland not the ACC. Ranked 30 out of 32 conferences, I expected more. I can forgive non-conference loses bc we played some good to average teams but not southland.
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That's fair. He may not be the right guy, but there's not a way you, I or anyone here can tell that right now. Anyone that really follows college basketball knows that keeping up a winning dominance like the last few years is impossible. Especially with what Keller has in front of him. If Brad had this exact same team, would he be better? Possibly, but nowhere close to the level that they were at the last 2-3 years. One conference loss in the last 3 years is almost unheard of on any level. Any good team can have an off night or bad shooting night. We should all be in shock that we won that many games.TallTexan said:
To me, I feel it's more about the fact that he seemed to be the wrong hire in the first place. I think everyone here is hoping for improvement, but we're just being realistic about many of the fears that were shared when his name was first mentioned for the job.
I want the team to play better because he's our coach and I think he's a nice guy, but if it seems obvious he's not the right fit, how many years should we wait to find out?
I think Robert Hill has done a fantastic job with the basketball programs. I know we all want to see this team #1 in the SLC every year, but i know the front office has even greater vision. They want to be one of the top mid major programs in the country. A frequent attendee to the Big Dance, and maybe even a ticket out of the SLC. I do think the expectations have risen since BU, they did not agree to be at the bottom of SLC for a year or even years. So when someone says, "we will see this for a few years", is a miscalculation on their part. You have to adjust game plans when you dont have a stacked team of 'your' recruits. Keller will have time to turn this around, but not--years
PurpleOut said:That's fair. He may not be the right guy, but there's not a way you, I or anyone here can tell that right now. Anyone that really follows college basketball knows that keeping up a winning dominance like the last few years is impossible. Especially with what Keller has in front of him. If Brad had this exact same team, would he be better? Possibly, but nowhere close to the level that they were at the last 2-3 years. One conference loss in the last 3 years is almost unheard of on any level. Any good team can have an off night or bad shooting night. We should all be in shock that we won that many games.TallTexan said:
To me, I feel it's more about the fact that he seemed to be the wrong hire in the first place. I think everyone here is hoping for improvement, but we're just being realistic about many of the fears that were shared when his name was first mentioned for the job.
I want the team to play better because he's our coach and I think he's a nice guy, but if it seems obvious he's not the right fit, how many years should we wait to find out?
It's hard to keep it up, but we are in a unique situation. Our conference is generally terrible. Our team has a pretty easy route to the dance. If you get tourney wins, you should be able to get the recruits needed to dominate the Southland. Are we going to beat Kentucky in November? Maybe once in 100.
Brad was a force of nature. I remember watching SFA play Texas at the Drum. Towards the end of the game, there was a timeout as Texas had just broken open a lead with about a minute left. Underwood called the team over and I could hear him "take one play off and it can change the entire game, you can't take a single play off if you want to beat big Teams". In 3 years, I don't think I saw a single player not give 100%.
Could he turn one of these guys into Walkup? Unlikely, Walkup is one of a kind. But I'd bet the basketball IQ on the floor would be higher, the effort would be higher. Underwood was a force of nature.
I sure hope Keller turns it around, because getting better recruits than your Southland peers only works when you are winning. Two years of this mess and we could be looking at being just another Southland conference team that occasionally makes the tourney, like during the Kasper years. And as someone who had to sit through two years of Kasper ball while a student, let's not do that again.
Keller seems to be a nice guy, let's hope for our sakes and his that he turns this around. But right now we're worse than we were in November.
I think Hill did a great job hiring Underwood and on paper, Keller is a great hire. I just question mid major teams that try to play defense first, traditional offensive basketball. I think that Underwood's up tempo style with a killer d was uniquely suited to Mid Major success.mwaddell said:
I think Robert Hill has done a fantastic job with the basketball programs. I know we all want to see this team #1 in the SLC every year, but i know the front office has even greater vision. They want to be one of the top mid major programs in the country. A frequent attendee to the Big Dance, and maybe even a ticket out of the SLC. I do think the expectations have risen since BU, they did not agree to be at the bottom of SLC for a year or even years. So when someone says, "we will see this for a few years", is a miscalculation on their part. You have to adjust game plans when you dont have a stacked team of 'your' recruits. Keller will have time to turn this around, but not--years
With the level of talent we can get, it's hard to imagine us being able to play any top 25 team with a traditional half court O and coming out on top better than 1 out of 4. Because they'll have multiple NBA prospects to throw at us.
I think permanent mid major status is the right route for SFA to take. Winning in March benefits the school greatly. I just think the hire was wrong, but I truly hope I'm wrong on this.
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Perfectly fine, everyone is welcome to their own opinion of course. I hate losing more than anyone. Sitting at the Barclays Center last year after the ND game...I wanted to throw up. I just think it's unfair for everyone to be out on Coach Keller this fast.
I think Brad is a very rare coach to have in this league. If you look around the conference, there are some names you know but there have only been a few that will be considered as good coaches. So to compare Keller to Underwood is going to be very hard to do. Again, especially after only 15 games.
I think Brad is a very rare coach to have in this league. If you look around the conference, there are some names you know but there have only been a few that will be considered as good coaches. So to compare Keller to Underwood is going to be very hard to do. Again, especially after only 15 games.
I should be upfront, I was unsure on Keller when he was hired. Not just new coach, who are we getting unsure but truly hesitant. Not like his teams as Assistant coach the last five years were truly spectacular. So maybe this is just confirmation bias to me with the strategy, the shooting, and the turnovers.
That being said, the thing I like about Keller is that he wants to be here for the long haul, he wants to schedule really well so we play big teams in November and March. He wants to make us one of the best mid major destinations, not just Southland destination . A Gregg Marshall type of tenure. And hopefully that kind of success.
And I really hope we find something that works, because basketball puts SFA on the map. We could win a football national championship and it wouldn't get us a tenth of the media time that a March Madness win pulls in.
I'll have to turn it into an article at some point, but SFA is in a unique position. We're the nearest D1 for 100 miles in almost any direction. We own East Texas and we should tie our success into the rural East Texas pride that the region has. There are 2 million people in the SFA footprint that aren't served by another school of our size. From an academic, athletic, and support standpoint, SFA has an opportunity to be something much bigger than the 16th largest public school in the state. There's a long way to go, but we've taken some great steps forward for the university in the past 5 years.
And regarding Brad, he's a very rare coach to have in any league. I don't think the Big 12 is his last step up on the coaching ladder. He's that good.
That being said, the thing I like about Keller is that he wants to be here for the long haul, he wants to schedule really well so we play big teams in November and March. He wants to make us one of the best mid major destinations, not just Southland destination . A Gregg Marshall type of tenure. And hopefully that kind of success.
And I really hope we find something that works, because basketball puts SFA on the map. We could win a football national championship and it wouldn't get us a tenth of the media time that a March Madness win pulls in.
I'll have to turn it into an article at some point, but SFA is in a unique position. We're the nearest D1 for 100 miles in almost any direction. We own East Texas and we should tie our success into the rural East Texas pride that the region has. There are 2 million people in the SFA footprint that aren't served by another school of our size. From an academic, athletic, and support standpoint, SFA has an opportunity to be something much bigger than the 16th largest public school in the state. There's a long way to go, but we've taken some great steps forward for the university in the past 5 years.
And regarding Brad, he's a very rare coach to have in any league. I don't think the Big 12 is his last step up on the coaching ladder. He's that good.
I think as fans, we are all just scared to lose everything that our past teams have work so hard to get. A few weeks ago we were in the final list of two 4 star recruit. Big schools can afford to have bad seasons but we cant. A few loses and we can completely disappear. I wasn't around for the Kaspar era and I don't want to go back. We talk about Keller recruiting skills but i'm pretty sure he would have never gotten those player without the work Underwood and his team did. Winning is the best recruiting tool. We shouldn't settle for anything less bc settling leads to decline.So we have to keep pushing and questioning.
I picked the 42% shooting right. Not that it helped. Just got done watching this on replay since I couldn't watch live. That first 9 minutes was almost unbearable. At one point, Jovan actually didn't look like the worst player on the court. I'm pretty sure that's a first ever.
I'm not smart enough to tell if it's the system or the players, but it does seem like our players don't have confidence. Traylor took some heads up shots and they were good. Keller got onto Charles for not taking a shot, and then he made some nice driving buckets. Early foul trouble again. And yet ACU just kept giving us the ball. Another terrible team gets a win.
I don't get paid enough to call for anyone's head, but I'm ready to see some progress somewhere. I liked what I saw in the HBU game. Maybe next week.
I'm not smart enough to tell if it's the system or the players, but it does seem like our players don't have confidence. Traylor took some heads up shots and they were good. Keller got onto Charles for not taking a shot, and then he made some nice driving buckets. Early foul trouble again. And yet ACU just kept giving us the ball. Another terrible team gets a win.
I don't get paid enough to call for anyone's head, but I'm ready to see some progress somewhere. I liked what I saw in the HBU game. Maybe next week.
Ryan
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Wow! This team is even worse than I thought. I thought they would be a 4th place team and right now that looks optimistic.
Im still trying to wrap my head around why Jovan started. That makes me question Keller's tactics. Im sure Jovan is a great guy but he shouldnt be playing unless every single player on our team is in foul trouble. Maybe he need another season on bench. He averages 1 point and 1 rebound a game at 7 feet tall. I dont know too much about the x's and o's basketball, but Anyone with two eyes can see he should not be playing. That should be a RED ALARM
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I can't figure this out as well. Could be a couple of things. We haven't had a consistent starting 5 all season, so A) it could be as simple as Keller not being comfortable with a certain group starting. Not sure why Ty didn't start tonight either. I know his hand has still been bothering him, but he looked pretty solid tonight.sfa17 said:
Im still trying to wrap my head around why Jovan started. That makes me question Keller's tactics. Im sure Jovan is a great guy but he shouldnt be playing unless every single player on our team is in foul trouble. Maybe he need another season on bench. He averages 1 point and 1 rebound a game at 7 feet tall. I dont know too much about the x's and o's basketball, but Anyone with two eyes can see he should not be playing. That should be a RED ALARM
Could also be B) you want someone like him and/or Gilmore coming off the bench for a spark. Clide was arguably our 2nd if not 3rd best player last year as a 6th man. And also C) it may be apart of his scheme to want a bigger sized lineup. You don't need a big lineup in this conference, but if you have a really good Center and a really good PF/F like TJ then you could easily dominate the league. Unfortunately, Jovan isn't that, and not sure what he can contribute. His size doesn't even seem to help on defense and/or rebounding.
I'm also wondering why Winchester didn't get any minutes. He's looked pretty good, definitely better than your average walk on. And has provided a big spark off the bench when he comes in. Plays great defense and has a really good jumper. We obviously don't see everything in practice like the coaches, but seems like he's earned a few minutes.
Starting 5 I would have right now:
Cameron
Harris
Canete
Charles
Holyfield
Gilmore and Traylor first off the bench. I think tonight could have been different if Canete wasn't in foul trouble. And, again, we still need TJ to be better. I think he was more assertive tonight, but he just didn't play great. Missed 2 layups he normally gets, and again fouls out. There just seems to be a hesitation for him to step up. And actually, there seems to be an overall hesitation with the squad. Obviously with the shots, but a lot of stupid turnovers happen when someone passes up a jumper then is forced to pass it to a player that has to try to come back to get the ball. I don't know.
I was just about to comment on Winchester. He seem no worst than Augustine sometimes even better. It's not like we are playing light out and we can't afford to mess up the chemistry. Augustine is not a shooter and we need people that will at least attempt to shoot. He reminds me of trey minus the leadership. Which he will get over time but not as freshmen.
I cant find one good reason to play jovan. He Offers nothing defensive or offensively (other than being 7 feet) The starting line should not be a place holder. I don't like bashing our player but he doesn't make it easy.
The turnovers are ridiculous to the point that it HAS to be the way we play. We went from #2 in the country in creating turnovers to having the most turnover. And most of the turnovers are not bc of the other teams pressure. Like Huntley try to loop the ball to Gilmore into the middle and the ball hit rim (idk if that's a missed shot or turnover). I was scratching my head like what!! why!!
I cant find one good reason to play jovan. He Offers nothing defensive or offensively (other than being 7 feet) The starting line should not be a place holder. I don't like bashing our player but he doesn't make it easy.
The turnovers are ridiculous to the point that it HAS to be the way we play. We went from #2 in the country in creating turnovers to having the most turnover. And most of the turnovers are not bc of the other teams pressure. Like Huntley try to loop the ball to Gilmore into the middle and the ball hit rim (idk if that's a missed shot or turnover). I was scratching my head like what!! why!!
sfa17 said:
I was just about to comment on Winchester. He seem no worst than Augustine sometimes even better.
Agreed. He plays with a look like Trey. Is he getting lessons from him? I hope so. They both look like Freshmen. I would play the one with the better defense and shooting abilities.
sfa17 said:
I cant find one good reason to play jovan. He Offers nothing defensive or offensively (other than being 7 feet)
Jovan had that one good play where he blocked out up a the elbow of the key and released in for the over pass. Easy bucket. It looked good for the first time ever. He's 7'0"! This should be his bread and butter. Oh well. He actually played better tonight than most showings. The poor play wasn't on him.
sfa17 said:
Like Huntley try to loop the ball to Gilmore into the middle and the ball hit rim (idk if that's a missed shot or turnover). I was scratching my head like what!!
That was absolutely a terrible pass. I don't know if he thought about the alley-oop, but it was ugly.
It's not if we have the talent for me. I think we have enough to win Southland games. It's if more than 2 players can show up for any game. How many games until we break 75? I know there not sponsoring a 70 point free chicken this year, but Canes shouldn't have pulled that promotion. They would never have to pay on it.
Ryan
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I'm hoping that the big 6'9" kid we have coming in next year (Fisher) will plug the middle a bit. Watching the mixtape of him playing in high school, it's hard to tell what impact he'll have right away because he was playing against guys much smaller than those he'll face in college. And obviously, he'll be a freshman with a big learning curve.PurpleOut said:
And also C) it may be apart of his scheme to want a bigger sized lineup. You don't need a big lineup in this conference, but if you have a really good Center and a really good PF/F like TJ then you could easily dominate the league. Unfortunately, Jovan isn't that, and not sure what he can contribute. His size doesn't even seem to help on defense and/or rebounding.
But that is then and this is now....
What was a fair expectation for Keller and his squad entering the season? 1) A competitive SLC season finish in the top 3-4. 2) Middle of the pack 5-8. 3) Rebuilding 9 - 12. Right now I'd be happy with. 7th or 8th place finish. I'm wondering what the rest of the keyboard warriors think?
I've kind of said from the beginning whatever happens this year, this year was going to be down. I didn't expect us to have a conference loss until much later if we did have one, but I expected a down year.
Next year we will be back in the clear top spot of the conference. But this year there's a lot of learning our team needs to do. And some learning our coach needs to do.
Next year we will be back in the clear top spot of the conference. But this year there's a lot of learning our team needs to do. And some learning our coach needs to do.
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I expected and hoped for at least a Top 4 finish, which is still 100% doable. I'd be very happy with a single bye in the conference tournament.
I'm okay with 4th. As long as we beat Sam at home and away. Not losing to prison tech lol
I'd be very happy with 3rd or 4th. Doable ... yes. I'm not optimistic though. I see 6 or 7 teams we split with. 1 or 2 we sweep. 2 or 3 that sweep us. I'm going to say 9-9 conference. 10-8 in the high end. As low as 7 wins 11 losses.
Nor were Brad's before SFA hired him. In fact, overall you could say Keller's tenure as an assistant coach was far more impressive than Brad's.TallTexan said:
Not like his teams as Assistant coach the last five years were truly spectacular.
These numbers are about what I expect, too. Parity exists in the SLC this year. To expect a continuation of the dominance we've had is just unrealistic.BigJack85 said:
I'd be very happy with 3rd or 4th. Doable ... yes. I'm not optimistic though. I see 6 or 7 teams we split with. 1 or 2 we sweep. 2 or 3 that sweep us. I'm going to say 9-9 conference. 10-8 in the high end. As low as 7 wins 11 losses.
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At this point, I could see us finishing anywhere from 1-10. All depends on when (or if) we get this offense sorted out.
At any rate, I'm retired from season predictions for this team.
At any rate, I'm retired from season predictions for this team.
To be fair to our terrible play so far, the teams that we have lost to did not play well either. I think we could have played marginally better (i.e. still bad) and won both of those. Realistically we could still have been 3-0 instead of 1-2 with hardly any difference.
So far, I don't think there's any evidence the Southland has changed a bit besides us coming down a couple notches. Maybe you could say UNO is better - but they have been the worst. I think about 10% more confidence and we'll win half of our games here out. Any real improvement, we're top 4 contenders. Maybe I have drank too much Kool-Aid, but so far the SLC still is showing that it's ripe for the picking.
So far, I don't think there's any evidence the Southland has changed a bit besides us coming down a couple notches. Maybe you could say UNO is better - but they have been the worst. I think about 10% more confidence and we'll win half of our games here out. Any real improvement, we're top 4 contenders. Maybe I have drank too much Kool-Aid, but so far the SLC still is showing that it's ripe for the picking.
Ryan
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I really appreciate those that have optimism.
I see a lot of people thinking we can be a #3 or #4 seed in the tournament.
Maybe I am just the Debbie downer...but I think we are in real trouble of not making the tournament.
Seriously. ACU is (was) the worst team in the SLC. And we lost to them.
Perhaps we figure it out, but what evidence has anyone seen that would dictate this was even possible?
Hope I am wrong, but I am starting to really worry this is a NON-TOURNAMENT TEAM.
I'll refrain from dogging on Keller, that's been evident enough, but it is too much to ask for to see some emotion? They can hire me and I can do the 1,000 yard stare just as easily.
BRIGHT SIDE: I totally nailed that prediction
I see a lot of people thinking we can be a #3 or #4 seed in the tournament.
Maybe I am just the Debbie downer...but I think we are in real trouble of not making the tournament.
Seriously. ACU is (was) the worst team in the SLC. And we lost to them.
Perhaps we figure it out, but what evidence has anyone seen that would dictate this was even possible?
Hope I am wrong, but I am starting to really worry this is a NON-TOURNAMENT TEAM.
I'll refrain from dogging on Keller, that's been evident enough, but it is too much to ask for to see some emotion? They can hire me and I can do the 1,000 yard stare just as easily.
BRIGHT SIDE: I totally nailed that prediction
MasterAxe said:
BRIGHT SIDE: I totally nailed that prediction
You did that!
I haven't checked to see how many teams are eligible this year to make the tournament, but of eligible teams, only two teams have missed the past couple years. I believe it's a down year, but I haven't got to bottom two thinking yet. Or bottom 4 if more are eligible. Middle of the pack is where I see us now. That is still in the tournament. I bet a 6 win team is in. My over/under is still better than 6.
Ryan
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I'm with non tournament team. To many holes, no cohesion, lack of improvement (IE "sorting things out" the list goes on. This team has some (I repeat some) of the attributes of the Derek Alister coached teams of the late 90's).
Please don't come back at me that I'm making a direct comparison with Allister. There are some comparisons though.
Given the comparative resources and facilities we have a two year slump (6th or worse in SLC) is recoverable. It will just be painful to miss the tournament and be non-competitive next season.
Please don't come back at me that I'm making a direct comparison with Allister. There are some comparisons though.
Given the comparative resources and facilities we have a two year slump (6th or worse in SLC) is recoverable. It will just be painful to miss the tournament and be non-competitive next season.
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